SPEAKER_02
I wouldn't have even attempted to build something like this. But because we have Codex, because we have Opus, Austin, you were, this is not something that is a priority for the growth team, but if you wanted to just go ahead and do it, point Codex at it, just have it do it, go ahead. It was a really pivotal moment in us being able to actually do Giflinks. How we work is changing, right?
SPEAKER_03
This is a great example of the way in which work is possible, especially for knowledge workers like us, is dramatically different now. You have the tools to do almost anything you want at your disposal now. And it gives you the ability to do your main job better and very well. And it also gives you the ability to play and explore. And I think, looking at how this previously would have gone, you would have been, Oh, I see this problem. I would love for us to have Giflinks. You would probably come into me and be, I think this should be a growth experiment or the engineering team should build this. I would have said, good idea. It's not a priority on our roadmap.
SPEAKER_03
Let's do this later. And instead, you were just, I can just have an agent go, go do this. You no longer have to think about as much, is everything that someone's excited about a priority on the roadmap, and more, or do we have the systems in place for people to ship something they're excited about? And if they are, this is what it looks like to just be, go run at it.
SPEAKER_02
So what we have done is the editorial team have shipped Giflinks on the site for paid subscribers. When you go to an article page, you can actually see this new button called share full article. You can click it, and it'll let you know how many Giflinks you have and let you copy a Giflink to share with folks who are not paid Every subscribers. So how this started was I was scratching my own itch. I have a personal newsletter, and I often want to share things with my readers that aren't paywalled. There were a couple of pieces that I wrote on the Every site that I wanted to share with them without the paywall.
SPEAKER_02
The other thing I noticed was that a lot of my favorite blogs, Jason Kotke's blog, they'll only share paywalled content that uses Giflink to share it. Part of me was wondering, if we're trying to grow our subscriber base, are we limiting ourselves and limiting the ability of our articles to go viral? I started interacting with my AI agent. I pointed it at our code base, and I was, tell me what we have already on Giflinks. Do we have anything like that? Next step from there was who did I need to get buy-in from across the company in order to do this? I knew that it was tied to Austin in terms that it would be a growth experiment.
SPEAKER_02
I knew that Kate had to be a big part of this because she's the editor in chief. And then I also knew that I had to come to you guys with a convincing argument that this is something we should even try. So what I did was I had ChatGPT do deep research about Giflinks and about their effectiveness and pull together a comprehensive report about all of that. But then also about, if we were to implement it, knowing the site and the code base for the site, what would we have to set up to implement it? What would we want to track to make sure that we're measuring success? And so I put together that report, and I sent it to both of you.
SPEAKER_02
And I think this is where what we did with Giflinks maybe diverges from the way that this would have worked in the past. Austin, you looked at the report and you were, this is great. At the same time, we have all these other growth experiments that are a higher priority level. Before coding tools, AI agents, it might have just there, right?
SPEAKER_01
Jack, when you mentioned it to me, of course, it was a feature I'm intimately familiar with and use all the time myself. I'm frequently sending Giflinks with reporting from the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal. It always felt like something that would be a really nice to have. But knowing from my own perspective, sitting on the editorial team, typically the way that it has worked is that we have an engineer, a fantastic engineer, Andre, who manages our site. And he has a really full roadmap and he has a lot of priorities. And getting on that roadmap requires a lot of coordination and a lot of resource and planning on his part.
SPEAKER_01
Knowing how burning some of the issues are that we do need to be attending to on a day-to-day basis, it was a little hard to imagine how we would make this the case for this. More of a P0 or P1 priority as compared to a P3 or P4. Yet again, these are things we wanted to have. We are a media organization in addition to a producer of software. We want to be up to snuff with other organizations. And that is a habit that consumers know. And Jack very cogently made the case in a really complete document of what it is, how other sites do it, what the potential lift in growth could be, and what it would require to actually implement it.
SPEAKER_03
So my perspective on this is that I'm an enormous control freak. And I've also worked in paid subscription media my whole career. And I feel like a thing that I am quite used to is the people making the contents having a strong, strong desire to give it away for free so that more people can consume it. But the other thing that I experienced a lot at Every is that people get really excited about stuff and want to try stuff and want to experiment with different things. And a thing that can happen a lot here is that we get distracted and we can get off of what is the actual main thing we're trying to do that's going to help us achieve our goals?
SPEAKER_03
It's both a really good thing at Every because the only way this place works is people like to play and experiment and try new stuff. But it's been a transition for me coming here because I am someone who's, I see a goal. I frankly just want to focus on it and make it happen. And so you can actually see here that Jack, you messaged me this of, I think I want to do this. And what I'm basically telling you is don't waste my time with this. That's really my response, me being, interesting, right?
SPEAKER_03
A gift link is really thinking about how do we work with the trade-off of giving away a piece of content for free in order to potentially drive top-of-funnel and then mid-funnel journeys for net new users and social proof and sharing to potentially drive new free subscribers and eventually new paid subscribers. And I was, of the many things we can do that will increase our MRR, this is very low on the list of things that I think will work or are worth our time. And so you can actually see here that Jack, you messaged me this of, I think I want to do this. And what I'm telling you is don't waste my time with this.
SPEAKER_03
That's really my response, me being like, interesting, right? A gift link is really thinking about how do we work with the trade-off of giving away a piece of content for free in order to potentially drive top-of-funnel and then mid-funnel journeys for net new users and social proof and sharing to potentially drive new free subscribers and eventually new paid subscribers. And I was like, of the many things we can do that will increase our MRR, this is very low on the list of things that I think will work or are worth our time. The cool thing that's possible now is that you took that and you were able to then be like, hey, I have a plan.
SPEAKER_03
And you brought the plan and you shared it in Slack. I shared your plan with Codex, and all I asked it was, is this going to break anything, or is this going to give away a bunch of content for free that I don't want to? I am backstopping it against the things that I really care about. And Codex said no. It's a change in how I think companies with smart, creative, ambitious people can operate, where I can say, okay, these guardrails are in place for the thing that I'm responsible for, which is MRR growth. And also the guardrails are in place that you can test this and try this without breaking the website.
SPEAKER_03
It's actually an important growth moment for me in how I work, to say, okay, as long as I trust the people I work with, understanding we have all these tools at our disposal now to do anything. It's actually much better to let people run at the thing they're excited about and try it, as long as the systems are in place to do this work really well.
SPEAKER_03
And it's been a good insight for me and the rest of the growth team to be like, actually, the best thing we can do is build the infrastructure for anyone on the team who has these cool ideas around editorial experiments and initiatives, product experiment initiatives, to just quickly ship stuff they're excited about because they're close to it. You two are avid consumers of media and paywall media.
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_03] You're going to naturally get really good ideas that might be great for the business.
SPEAKER_03
And rather than how I've worked before at previous companies, where you're really protective of your resources, you're really protective of your engineering time here.
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_03] I think the best thing we can do is be like, great, not just ship it, but you know how to ship it, right?
SPEAKER_03
And we know how to see if it's harming something important. And it's actually going to make us go a lot faster and work a lot better. [SPEAKER_01] So proud of you for this growth moment, head of growth, Austin.
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_03] A lot of AI stuff has been like, all you have to do is be less of a control freak, and everything— Out of your comfort zone. [SPEAKER_03] Will be better. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Turn over work to your agents and your teammates. I think what's interesting too from that perspective of control and where the work gets done is, from an editorial perspective, we are the ones who are most heavily in the CMS, making sure pieces are produced to the highest level of our standards every day. And yet historically, we have the least facility with using it or with changing it or building it.
SPEAKER_01
I've thought of myself, at least, as being at the mercy of an engineer who, the features that they're going to build likely are going to be the ones that could have the greatest impact on the greatest
SPEAKER_03
[SPEAKER_01] number of users. [SPEAKER_01] And so if it's something that is a small pain point for me, even if it's something I experience every day, it may not be a priority because it's just not going to impact anyone other than me. [SPEAKER_01] I should clarify, GIFT links is not that category of feature, but that is typically how the relationship between an editorial team and an engineer who maintains a website has gone. [SPEAKER_01] It's been really refreshing to see that is something that we can have a little bit more of a hand in and a little bit more control over.
SPEAKER_03
[SPEAKER_01] And, by the way, free up our engineer to work on really big projects and really big things that may have an outsized impact, and that he doesn't need to be on the level of the things that are going to maybe help our workflow in some ways. Frankly, I still remain extremely skeptical. This will make us any more money. I really do. But I'm so happy we never had to have that argument. This is, I think, the first time we've ever talked about my opinions on this thing, which is really good. Because ultimately what this allows for is to just let the data show us, right?
SPEAKER_02
[SPEAKER_03] The data will show us now either this is driving a lot more free subscribers who become paid subscribers and we should scale this. [SPEAKER_03] Or it might show us that we have paywalled pieces that actually have GIFT-link redemptions that are converting, and we can turn it off. [SPEAKER_03] And it's so much better to just see this stuff play out with the user journeys and with the data rather than, which I think we've all done much before, us being in a meeting and me being like, this won't work. [SPEAKER_03] I don't want to waste time on it. [SPEAKER_03] And you being like, I actually think we should do it.
SPEAKER_02
And as we're collecting more data, I can also very easily just be like, hey, Codex, tell PostHog to set up these things on the dashboard. Start tracking these things. So it's something that is less of this thing where, okay, we wrote this huge spec around it and got all the buy-in and shipped it.
SPEAKER_00
[SPEAKER_02] And more truly an experiment, we'll put this out.
SPEAKER_03
[SPEAKER_02] We'll see what we learn from the early data. [SPEAKER_02] We'll refine it. [SPEAKER_02] We'll tweak it. [SPEAKER_02] We'll collect more data and we'll go from there. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And also a good reminder too, to be like, if you've literally never done something like this before, if you work in the spaces that we work in. And it feels too scary to ship PR to the website for your company, which it did for me for a long time too. Play around with a personal project, right? Jack, you built your own version of Codex, which is nuts. If you work in editorial and you want to try this, you can actually just build your own CMS, right?
SPEAKER_03
You can just ask it to build your own CMS and then push PRs to it. I think building up that confidence is important and finding a personal project to try this with so that you feel more confident and comfortable to do it. [SPEAKER_03] Both to do it at work and then to do it in front of people.
[SPEAKER_03] Every time I ship a PR, I'm like, Andre is going to come at me and be like, this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. [SPEAKER_03] And shipping enough stuff on my own personal projects that actually works is incredibly helpful. [SPEAKER_03] And I think I would encourage everyone. [SPEAKER_03] I have a few personal projects that I don't even really share with anyone, but I try new models on them and I try new tooling on them because it gives me a much better sense of what I can actually do at work, which is also really helpful. Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] To do it both at work and in front of people.
[SPEAKER_03] Every time I ship a PR, I think Andre is going to come at me and say, "This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen." [SPEAKER_03] Shipping enough stuff on my own personal projects that actually works is incredibly helpful. [SPEAKER_03] I think I would encourage everyone. [SPEAKER_03] I have a few personal projects that I don't even really share with anyone, but I try new models on them and I try new tooling on them because it gives me a much better sense of what I can actually do at work, which is also really helpful. Yeah.