More or Less Podcast

Hype vs Reality: Our 2026 Predictions for Tech, Media, and Culture

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Start with the signal

11 min read

Summary

At-a-Glance

  • Verdict: Skim
  • Core thesis: The panel expects 2026 to shift AI from infrastructure hype toward personalized agents, generated software interfaces, model consolidation, and labor and regulatory consequences, while physical experiences gain value as a counterweight to digital saturation.
  • Why it matters: The strongest predictions identify potential pressure on seat-based SaaS, increasing dependence on a few foundation-model providers, tighter scrutiny of AI capex, and new distribution surfaces spanning agents, games, wearables, and AI-generated advertising.
  • Best use: Use the episode as a collection of thesis prompts for AI workflow architecture, software investing, and consumer distribution; skim past the loose market and pop-culture predictions.

Executive Summary

The most consequential argument is that AI-generated interfaces could weaken the traditional SaaS model. Rather than buying a fixed application priced per seat, users may generate temporary or task-specific interfaces over their own data and workflows. A cited example is an open-source recreation of the heavily funded legal product Harvey, reportedly built with Claude Code in one or two days. The panel expects the first meaningful signs of this transition in 2026, although enterprise security, regulation, data integrity, and deterministic workflows remain substantial defenses for incumbent software.

At the consumer layer, the panel predicts a move from general chatbots toward persistent personal agents connected to email, calendars, commerce, health data, and other services. Ambient wearables that listen to and summarize a user's day could become an early-adopter category. Google is viewed as particularly well positioned because Gemini can sit across Workspace and other data surfaces; the panel also predicts that at least one major company currently developing its own models will substantially adopt Gemini instead.

The capital environment is expected to become more polarized. Large AI companies may continue attracting capital and potentially produce a $500 billion-plus IPO, but public investors are likely to scrutinize debt-funded data-center spending and the gap between capex announcements and completed projects. That pressure, combined with AI-enabled operating leverage, could produce substantial Silicon Valley layoffs. The panel also expects AI advertising automation to benefit Meta, while alternative accelerators, TPUs, pricing, and China exposure could weaken Nvidia's relative market position.

Outside enterprise AI, the panel expects games to become primary media and social distribution channels, prediction markets to encounter regulatory resistance, and physical clubs, wellness spaces, and other recurring in-person experiences to grow as a response to digital fatigue. These are directionally useful signals, but many predictions are intentionally speculative and insufficiently quantified.

Key Takeaways

  • Claim: AI-generated, task-specific interfaces could begin undermining the fixed-interface, per-seat SaaS model in 2026. | Evidence: The panel cites someone using Claude Code to recreate and open-source an interface for Harvey, a heavily funded legal software product, in one or two days. The broader comparison is to SaaS products built as complex UX layers over databases such as Postgres. | Implication: Ken should treat workflow ownership, permissions, auditability, and proprietary data access as more durable than a polished interface, and design agent systems so interfaces can be generated or replaced without disturbing the control plane. | Caveat: Legacy enterprise platforms still provide difficult-to-replicate data storage, security, regulatory compliance, integration, and deterministic workflows; probabilistic output is unacceptable for some records and processes.
  • Claim: Persistent personal agents will begin replacing isolated chatbot sessions by combining context from multiple platforms and data domains. | Evidence: The panel predicts that each host will have a primary agent connected to services such as Amazon, GPT-based tools, and health data. Google Labs' CC is offered as an early example because it uses Gemini across email, calendar, Docs, and Workspace to create an assistant-like daily briefing. | Implication: The valuable agent layer is likely to be the trusted context and permission broker across services, not merely the conversational interface; identity, scoped access, memory governance, and revocation should be first-class architecture. | Caveat: The prediction assumes users will accept substantial privacy intrusion in exchange for utility, and the episode does not address consent architecture, data retention, authentication, or agent authorization boundaries.
  • Claim: Foundation-model development will consolidate as at least one major technology company abandons or reduces its independent model effort and adopts Gemini substantially. | Evidence: The panel points to Google's dramatic year-over-year execution and Gemini usage gains, then names large enterprise vendors such as Salesforce as the type of company that could go substantially 'full Gemini.' It also notes reporting about model distillation and dependence on other providers. | Implication: Ken should avoid architecture that equates product differentiation with ownership of one base model; model routing, evaluation, portability, and proprietary workflow context are safer sources of leverage. | Caveat: No company is named as a firm candidate, and the discussion acknowledges that the boundary between using, distilling, routing to, and fully adopting another provider's model is increasingly fuzzy.
  • Claim: AI capex will face stronger investor scrutiny, contributing to significant layoffs even while the largest AI companies continue growing. | Evidence: The speakers distinguish large capex press releases from 'money in the bank' or 'shovels in the ground,' cite Blue Owl pulling out of a large Oracle project, and note that heavy Texas rain delayed some data-center projects by nearly a quarter or more. They expect companies to use AI leverage and coordinated cost cutting to reduce headcount. | Implication: Ken should evaluate AI infrastructure commitments on funded deployment, utilization, delivery timelines, and unit economics rather than announced dollar values, while monitoring whether workforce reductions indicate genuine workflow automation or simple financial engineering. | Caveat: The prediction does not quantify layoffs or establish how much would be caused by AI rather than ordinary margin management, financing costs, or overhiring.
  • Claim: A major private-company IPO could create a technology-sector liquidity wave with meaningful second- and third-order effects. | Evidence: One prediction calls for exactly one IPO valued above $500 billion, with SpaceX presented as the leading candidate and OpenAI or Anthropic as alternatives. The discussion suggests that SpaceX, OpenAI, and Anthropic listings around 2026-2027 could release substantial employee and investor wealth into housing, startups, and other assets. | Implication: Ken should model the prospective IPO cycle not only as an exit event but as a source of new angel capital, founder formation, talent mobility, and eventual political pressure over extreme concentration and antitrust. | Caveat: The specific timing and valuation are highly speculative, and the panel stresses that the liquidity effect could remain significant even if current private valuations are cut in half.
  • Claim: Games will increasingly function as the launch platform and social network for entertainment intellectual property, while child-safety concerns invite greater scrutiny. | Evidence: Daft Punk's Fortnite activation is described as a harbinger of IP owners launching in games before expanding elsewhere. Roblox is characterized as an influential social environment rather than 'just a game,' and Disney's reported decision to withhold its IP from Roblox is cited as evidence of growing concern. | Implication: Consumer GTM plans should treat game platforms as participatory communities rather than advertising inventory, with child safety, moderation, identity, and parental controls built into channel selection. | Caveat: The claim combines two forces that may conflict: games becoming more important for distribution while regulation and parental opposition constrain the largest youth platforms.
  • Claim: Prediction markets such as Kalshi and Polymarket will face a difficult regulatory year as their sports-betting activity collides with state tax interests and youth-gambling concerns. | Evidence: The panel compares the current phase to Uber's strategy of expanding first and contesting rules later. It argues that states receiving substantial sports-betting tax revenue will not indefinitely accept prediction markets claiming exemption from gambling rules, especially amid reports of young users becoming addicted. | Implication: Ken should separate demand validation from regulatory durability when assessing prediction-market infrastructure and monitor state taxation, federal preemption, age controls, and exchange partnerships. | Caveat: A pro-gambling federal administration or closer integration with conventional financial exchanges could instead accelerate the category, so the speakers disagree on whether regulation will stall growth or formalize it.

Detailed Brief

AI distribution, advertising, and commerce

  • Claims: AI-generated creative and automated campaign execution could make 2026 a breakout year for advertising efficiency, with much of the resulting value accruing to Meta rather than remaining with application-layer startups.; An Amazon-OpenAI relationship may ultimately matter more for commerce than for its initially discussed cloud arrangement.; Celebrity licensing could become a mainstream AI content strategy when a top-tier artist licenses their identity across generated music, film, or related experiences.
  • Evidence: Startups are reportedly seeing rapid revenue growth by accepting a website or product input, generating advertisements, and automating placement and targeting; the panel predicts Meta reaches an all-time high partly because this activity feeds its advertising system.; Amazon was reported to be discussing a $10 billion OpenAI investment, framed partly as a way to drive Trainium usage. The panel argues that commerce is the larger potential 'shoe to drop.'; Matthew McConaughey and less prominent artists are cited as early identity-licensing examples, with Beyoncé offered as the hypothetical level of celebrity that would validate the category.
  • Caveats: The Amazon-OpenAI commerce thesis is presented as a watch item, not a specific disclosed deal.; Celebrity AI licensing introduces unresolved consent, exclusivity, compensation, provenance, and reputational risks.
  • Implications: Distribution owners may capture more economic value from AI-generated campaigns than the tools producing creative assets.; Commerce agents could make product catalog quality, transaction permissions, attribution, and platform access more strategically important than standalone shopping interfaces.

Physical experience as a countertrend to digital saturation

  • Claims: Digital fatigue and the post-COVID search for belonging will drive growth in recurring third spaces rather than only one-off entertainment events.; The economy may split between attention-maximizing online personalities and curated, meaning-oriented physical businesses.; Trade education and businesses operating in the physical world may gain cultural appeal alongside the AI boom.
  • Evidence: Examples include arcades, family-oriented versions of Soho House, gyms, saunas, private health clubs, wellness hotels, and wellness-centered travel.; New York and Los Angeles are described as leading indicators where clubs increasingly organize around a specific activity or health experience rather than merely offering a bar.; Taylor Swift's Eras Tour is cited as evidence of demand for shared physical experiences.
  • Caveats: The trend predates 2026 and is not supported with market-size or retention data, so it may represent an acceleration rather than a new category.; Membership concepts can appear attractive culturally while remaining operationally difficult and capital intensive.
  • Implications: AI-native products that facilitate trusted real-world coordination may benefit from the trend without carrying the full operating burden of physical venues.; Investment diligence should distinguish durable recurring communities from novelty-driven hospitality concepts.

Synthetic media and the declining economic premium on factual accuracy

  • Claims: As synthetic media becomes inexpensive, consumers may rationally accept products that are useful or entertaining despite being only mostly accurate.; Improving image and video models will expand personalized and adult synthetic content into the mainstream.; AI could reduce journalism employment while failing to solve the underlying scarcity of verified local reporting.
  • Evidence: An AI-generated children's podcast about Napoleon is used to illustrate a product where users might tolerate 85% factual accuracy and overlook the remaining 15%.; Google's Doppl reportedly reproduced a user's face and body convincingly across virtual outfits, demonstrating progress in personalized generation.; The panel discusses ChatGPT Pulse generating hometown summaries but acknowledges that AI still requires reliable source information.
  • Caveats: Tolerance for inaccuracy varies sharply by domain; entertainment standards cannot safely transfer to legal, financial, health, or civic information.; Synthetic intimate content creates severe consent and abuse risks even when benign personalization begins with explicit licensing.
  • Implications: Provenance and truth guarantees may become premium product features rather than universal defaults.; Agent systems should explicitly classify tasks by acceptable error rate and require verified sources or human review for high-consequence outputs.

Notable Concepts & Terms

  • AI is the new UI: The idea that users will generate interfaces dynamically for a task or workflow, weakening fixed application interfaces as the primary source of SaaS value.
  • Primary agent: A persistent assistant that combines personal context and permissions across multiple providers, applications, commerce systems, and health data rather than operating inside one chatbot.
  • Google CC: A Google Labs experiment using Gemini across Workspace data to prepare assistant-like daily summaries; it serves as an early example of an integrated personal agent.
  • Model distillation: Using a stronger model's outputs or behavior to improve another model; the discussion uses it to show why claims of model independence are becoming ambiguous.
  • Capex press release: A large infrastructure announcement that may not correspond to committed financing, construction, or operational capacity.
  • Games-first launch strategy: Launching entertainment IP and cultural experiences inside platforms such as Fortnite before expanding into conventional media channels.
  • Third-space culture: Recurring physical spaces outside home and work that provide community, wellness, or shared activity as an antidote to digital fatigue.
  • ROI on truth: The claim that low-cost synthetic products may make partial accuracy economically acceptable in some contexts, while creating serious risks when that norm reaches consequential information.

Operator Notes / Why Ken Should Care

  • Add interface replaceability to product reviews: require a clear account of what remains proprietary if a customer can recreate the visible workflow with an AI coding tool.
  • Define agent permission tiers for read, draft, execute, purchase, and disclose actions before connecting additional personal or enterprise data sources.
  • Build a recurring cross-model evaluation suite so Gemini, OpenAI, Anthropic, and local models can be substituted without rewriting orchestration logic.
  • Require evidence of financed capacity, deployment dates, utilization, and power availability before treating announced AI infrastructure as supply.
  • Track Gemini adoption by nominally independent model builders as a consolidation indicator, distinguishing API use, distillation, fallback routing, and full strategic dependence.
  • Create domain-specific accuracy policies that prohibit entertainment-grade probabilistic output in legal, financial, health, security, and operational control workflows.
  • Monitor whether AI-driven headcount reductions are accompanied by measurable cycle-time, quality, or margin improvements; avoid treating layoffs alone as proof of automation.
  • For consumer distribution experiments involving games, prediction markets, or synthetic identity, make child safety, age assurance, consent, and provenance gating criteria rather than post-launch compliance work.

Source/Metadata

  • Title: Hype vs Reality: Our 2026 Predictions for Tech, Media, and Culture
  • Transcript words: 11070
  • Duration seconds: 3371
  • Timestamp note: No timestamps or chapter markers were present in the supplied transcript; several passages were duplicated by the transcript extraction.
Full transcript 9696 words · 48 min read
0:00

SPEAKER_04

Amazon is in talks to invest $10 billion in OpenAI.

0:04

SPEAKER_02

The funny thing about that is, $10 billion doesn't even get me out of bed anymore. It's $10 billion of a multitrillion-dollar company. They're not even buying a Miata. But $10 million is chump change that buys you three engineers. Or 10.

0:18

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, 10. Ten, and one bil per engineer.

0:42

SPEAKER_04

Why, hello, friends. Welcome to the More or Less predictions episode.

0:48

SPEAKER_01

Oh God.

0:49

SPEAKER_04

I'm really excited. Who else is excited? I'm really excited.

0:52

SPEAKER_03

Britt, did you take notes? I took notes. Lots of notes. Okay.

0:56

SPEAKER_01

Oh, interesting.

0:57

SPEAKER_03

It's funny you did physical notes. I have my Notes app up on my screen.

1:00

SPEAKER_02

I'm definitely winging it.

1:02

SPEAKER_03

Sam and Dave wing it.

1:03

SPEAKER_02

I forgot that we were doing this. That's fine.

1:06

SPEAKER_03

Britt sent a text. This explains all of our personalities. Jess takes physical, handwritten notes on her notepad. I'm very organized digitally, and Sam and Dave are winging it.

1:17

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That's right. Let's go.

1:19

SPEAKER_03

Well, great.

1:20

SPEAKER_04

We're going to go, but first—and we'll keep it brief— the Morans' "Nauti or Nice" holiday card here. Now, lest you think they've gone East Coast yachting here because we have the nautical theme— I know that's not totally the vibe—but then...

1:40

SPEAKER_02

Well, you guys are boat people now. Is that your boat?

1:43

SPEAKER_03

That was the point. It was the idea. We became boat people this year, and "naughty" is spelled N-A-U-T-I for those who aren't looking at the video. Yes.

1:54

SPEAKER_04

But guys, these are the Morans. So they're not just going to send a holiday card. That would be so... lesson of the situation. So I'm going to flip to the back, where my kids thought it was a lottery ticket, but it's a scratch—scratch... What do you call these things? Scratch cards? Scratch-off cards. Scratch-off cards. And you scratch to guess how they stacked up. I'd be naughty or nice in multiple categories. Oh, the only one my kids didn't do was your birthday outfit, Britt. So hold on. Let's see. No, I know that. I was there. I was definitely naughty.

2:28

SPEAKER_03

It started naughty and got naughtier. I didn't include the naughty image because we send this card to old people who are friends with the family and professional people. But I included the somewhat naughty.

2:43

SPEAKER_04

Anyway, Morans, 10 out of 10. No, you didn't—you didn't show your abs. You didn't show your abs, Britt. What's going on? You missed a great opportunity here.

2:55

SPEAKER_01

I agree, Jess.

2:57

SPEAKER_03

Dave thought I could have been more risqué.

3:00

SPEAKER_02

Did you AI it up and give yourself super abs?

3:03

SPEAKER_03

Zero AI.

3:04

SPEAKER_04

Zero AI.

3:05

SPEAKER_02

No, she doesn't need it, man.

3:06

SPEAKER_04

But hadn't we talked about AI holiday cards on the pod? So I thought—I wondered that, but...

3:13

SPEAKER_02

I sent 300 copies of our book to people.

3:17

SPEAKER_04

As your holiday card?

3:18

SPEAKER_02

I actually found it. I didn't know that we had a holiday card list, but I found it because Jessica sent it. It's very, very well done. Yes. So then I just went through, marked all the people, and sent them books.

3:28

SPEAKER_04

You sent all those people books, or you just created a column?

3:32

SPEAKER_02

Only the names I recognized.

3:34

SPEAKER_04

Oh, good Lord. There's everyone who's ever worked at The Information.

3:37

SPEAKER_02

What?

3:37

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. The whole Information team got your book.

3:41

SPEAKER_02

No, no. I skipped those people.

3:42

SPEAKER_04

Former employees. I keep the formers on. I still like them.

3:45

SPEAKER_02

Some of them.

3:46

SPEAKER_04

I have some of my formers. Okay. 2026. Britt, are we starting by looking back on 2025 and scoring, or are we starting by looking ahead?

3:54

SPEAKER_03

What are we doing here? I think we should look back and score. Mm-hmm. Would you like me to list out each person's? Yes. Yes. I have it here. Digitally organized, as I said. All right. Sam had three things he predicted about 2025. The first: Bitcoin goes to 200. Thousand? Yes. $200,000. Where are we?

4:17

SPEAKER_02

Number go down.

4:18

SPEAKER_03

Oh, we're at 85.

4:20

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but it went to— Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on.

4:23

SPEAKER_03

This is on audio. I can pull this clip, Sam.

4:26

SPEAKER_02

Oh, no. I'm not saying I didn't say that. I'm actually curious where Bitcoin was trading at the time.

4:32

SPEAKER_04

It went to 123. Year to date, it went to 123.

4:37

SPEAKER_02

123. But where was it trading in January? When did we do this episode? In December.

4:43

SPEAKER_04

In December last year. It was roughly trading around 90.

4:48

Around 90. Whatever. Yeah, it didn't go to 200. [SPEAKER_03] Eh, eh. Okay. Sam said, "Solana ETF." [SPEAKER_02] That happened.

4:57

SPEAKER_02

It happened. [SPEAKER_03] I gave you that one.

5:00

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Year to date, it went to 123. [SPEAKER_02] 123. [SPEAKER_02] But where was it trading in Jan?

5:08

SPEAKER_02

When did we do this episode? In December.

5:10

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] In December last year. [SPEAKER_04] It was roughly trading around 90. [SPEAKER_02] 90. [SPEAKER_02] Whatever. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, it didn't go to 200. Eh, eh. Okay. Sam said, “Solana ETF.” [SPEAKER_02] That happened. [SPEAKER_02] It happened.

5:35

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] I gave you that one. [SPEAKER_03] And Sam said—God, all of yours were crypto, Sam.

5:37

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] You said, “Bitcoin owned by more governments globally.” [SPEAKER_02] That also happened. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, that happened.

5:43

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] That also happened. [SPEAKER_03] Two out of three. [SPEAKER_03] Okay.

5:50

SPEAKER_03

Britt said, “Less foreign brands on Amazon and more American manufacturing and domestic brands.” I don't think that's happened. Sorry, Britt. Eh, Shein's doing just fine. Well, wouldn't you have thought, with all the American manufacturing push, Trump would

6:07

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] have maybe regulated something on Amazon? [SPEAKER_03] That would have meant that you thought regulation would be effective.

6:12

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] So no, that didn't happen. [SPEAKER_04] But yeah.

6:15

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] 2025 was probably my lowest Amazon year ever because of this. [SPEAKER_01] What?

6:24

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] We—I'm shocked. [SPEAKER_02] We are now up to multiple a day. [SPEAKER_02] We have a receiving department. What I just got into?

6:43

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Thanks to Ricky Van Bean.

6:46

SPEAKER_03

Dave doesn't know this yet.

6:47

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] I have an Amazon Prime Visa where you get 5% cash back on all Amazon purchases because we [SPEAKER_03] spend so much on Amazon holistically as a family that that's a lot of money back. [SPEAKER_02] Wait, do you have the store card, or do you have the—I have all of the cards.

6:53

SPEAKER_02

I have the store card.

6:58

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Well, I don't know. [SPEAKER_03] It's just the Amazon Prime Visa. [SPEAKER_02] The thing is, I have so much Amazon credit because I never remember to use it.

7:01

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] I think I have $20,000 of Amazon credit. That's my bad. Well, give some to a friend for Christmas. Okay. So here's the stats. Last year, Chinese sellers represented 50% of active sellers on Amazon globally. This year, Chinese sellers represent 57% of Amazon sellers globally.

7:17

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] Which is stunning—tariffs, anyone?

7:19

SPEAKER_03

Right. [SPEAKER_04] That was April. [SPEAKER_04] So that's a good—It was a reasonable bet, Britt, but didn't cut your way.

7:24

SPEAKER_02

I guess I only have $3,000 of Amazon points available on my Amazon card. [SPEAKER_04] Okay.

7:27

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] This isn't important. [SPEAKER_04] Let's move on. We should have made you specify further infuse. I know. I know. But the second part of that was that Elon's university, quote unquote, TITS, was going to get off the ground because he did say he was going to get it off the ground this year. It has not actually launched and is not yet operational. [SPEAKER_02] Is it called TITS, though? It might still be a meme. I'm not—it is called TITS. The Texas Institute of Technology and Science. [SPEAKER_02] I love that.

7:50

SPEAKER_02

I've just given in to the branding. [SPEAKER_03] Okay.

7:52

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] But wait for my last prediction. [SPEAKER_03] I'm so excited.

7:55

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Ready? [SPEAKER_03] Taylor Swift gets engaged. [SPEAKER_03] Who called that one? [SPEAKER_03] You and everybody else, but we'll give it to you. [SPEAKER_03] I know. [SPEAKER_03] Okay. [SPEAKER_03] Okay. [SPEAKER_03] Over to Dave. [SPEAKER_03] Dave said AI and software engineering rapidly advance, and a new era of personal apps and a [SPEAKER_03] new ecosystem of software begins.

8:12

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Well, I think the first part, yeah.

8:13

SPEAKER_02

Second part, what's happened?

8:15

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. You get 0.5, Dave. [SPEAKER_01] I get credit.

8:21

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Come on. [SPEAKER_01] This is definitely the story of the year.

8:23

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's the narrative of the year. Has it actually happened? Yeah. You're using software you built for yourself.

8:29

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] I'm using software I built for myself. [SPEAKER_01] But we were doing that anyway. [SPEAKER_01] You've built easily 2x the amount you usually do. [SPEAKER_04] I agree.

8:38

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] I guess I did a bunch this summer.

8:41

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] There was the summer Cursor sprint where I couldn't watch Netflix.

8:42

SPEAKER_04

I remember that. Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I'll give you that.

8:45

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] The Cursor sprint was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Remember, we were debating whether it was better than social media, Sam. It certainly is entertaining. [SPEAKER_03] Better than Netflix.

8:57

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] Okay. [SPEAKER_03] Dave also said American manufacturing was going to have a lot of investment in this space.

8:59

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] There's no number on that, though, but there have been a lot of promises. [SPEAKER_04] I'll give you headline data center.

9:05

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] A lot of investment.

9:08

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] I guess if you count data centers—do you count data centers? [SPEAKER_04] What?

9:18

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Our biggest investment of the year was in this. [SPEAKER_01] Really? [SPEAKER_01] What did you invest in? [SPEAKER_01] Mitra. [SPEAKER_01] What is Mitra? [SPEAKER_01] Mitra does robots in material-flow warehouses and factories. So they make—

9:28

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] What is material flow? [SPEAKER_01] Material flow is the part where all of the materials come in before they go [SPEAKER_01] onto the assembly line.

9:34

SPEAKER_02

So the raw rubber for the tires when they come in.

9:36

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Yep.

9:38

SPEAKER_01

Or the metal for the robots. All that stuff goes in a warehouse, and it usually gets managed in two dimensions using forklifts, and Mitra makes it 3D. [SPEAKER_02] Well, don't the forklifts do the third dimension, up and down?

9:42

SPEAKER_02

Not really. Really?

9:44

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] They can't move it up in the third dimension.

9:45

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] This is like Citronic. [SPEAKER_02] We invested in something like this too.

9:48

SPEAKER_02

Completely different business.

9:51

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] All right. onto the assembly line.

9:55

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] So the raw rubber for the tires when they come in. [SPEAKER_01] Yep.

10:04

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Or the metal for the robots—all that stuff goes in a warehouse, and it usually [SPEAKER_01] gets managed in two dimensions using forklifts, and Mytra makes it 3D. [SPEAKER_02] Well, doesn't the forklift do the third dimension, up and down? [SPEAKER_02] Not really. [SPEAKER_02] Really? [SPEAKER_02] They can't move it up in the third dimension. [SPEAKER_02] This is like Symbotic. [SPEAKER_02] We invested in something like this too. [SPEAKER_02] Completely different business. All right. The last one Dave said was that it was going to be a good year for crypto and regulatory clarity around crypto. [SPEAKER_02] Well, I'm not sure there's regulatory clarity.

10:30

SPEAKER_03

So yes and no. [SPEAKER_01] There was regulatory clarity. [SPEAKER_01] Come on. [SPEAKER_01] Compared to one year ago. [SPEAKER_02] I guess they dropped a lot of lawsuits. [SPEAKER_02] Is that regulatory clarity? [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] And they tore up some letters. [SPEAKER_02] Love tearing up letters. [SPEAKER_01] Unclear whether it was a good year for crypto. [SPEAKER_01] So I'll take half credit on that one.

10:56

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] I'm bad at predictions because I have a pipeline of actual reporting.

10:58

SPEAKER_04

And if I give one of those things away.

10:59

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] I thought maybe you were the best, actually, because of your reporting.

11:01

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] So you said TikTok will operate in the U.S. with Ellison or Musk. [SPEAKER_03] No.

11:06

SPEAKER_03

Oh, Ellison, I guess. Yeah. Ellison. And in the U.S., you said companies focused on models would vertically integrate with chips and factories, et cetera.

11:14

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Oh, that's happening. [SPEAKER_03] Yes. [SPEAKER_03] That's happening. [SPEAKER_03] You said The New York Times and media copyright issues will bring forth no product innovation,

11:33

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] but instead media companies will just get paid more and have more tailwinds, and the strong [SPEAKER_03] will remain strong in media. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, that's true.

11:38

SPEAKER_03

But these aren't very specific. Mine this year are going to be way more specific. Don't worry, guys. Okay, good.

11:47

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Let's do more specific this year. [SPEAKER_03] I also said one last thing. [SPEAKER_03] I said there'd be one big health breakthrough and a huge GLP-1 leap.

11:51

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] I feel that happened.

11:54

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Oh, the GLP-1 leap you called. [SPEAKER_02] Amy Schumer is the GLP-1 leap. Yeah.

12:03

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Got thin, divorced her husband. [SPEAKER_04] And Serena. [SPEAKER_04] If you had told me Serena was going to be on a GLP-1 and contemplating a return to tennis, [SPEAKER_03] I would have said.

12:08

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] I also wouldn't have thought as many celebrities would be as public about their GLP-1s as they [SPEAKER_03] have been. [SPEAKER_03] That's been a surprise of the year.

12:27

SPEAKER_03

No big deal. [SPEAKER_04] There's less shame. [SPEAKER_04] I just wondered, before we move to next year, is there any—I love looking back [SPEAKER_04] because I totally—the year is long in the technology news cycle.

12:44

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Are there other things? What will 2025 be the year of?

12:47

SPEAKER_04

I feel, for example, slop entered the lexicon in 2025.

12:58

SPEAKER_01

For sure. Mm-hmm. 2025 was definitely the year of slop. [SPEAKER_03] Have you heard the term slop music instead of pop music?

13:15

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] No, not in that context. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Well, that's the new category. Yeah.

13:25

SPEAKER_04

Is there anything else?

13:35

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] The indelible mark of 2025 will be.

13:37

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] I think the AI talent wars will be a big coda. Oh, the AI talent wars. I think we can't overlook the government's changing relationship with the private sector

13:42

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] in 2025. [SPEAKER_01] In what way? [SPEAKER_01] Oh, meaning taking positions in the private sector? [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] Well, everything. So you see these direct things like Intel. [SPEAKER_04] I don't think it will happen, but taking a huge percentage of every NVIDIA H200 sold in China. [SPEAKER_04] And then the tech leaders and their relationship to the administration.

14:12

SPEAKER_03

I, I—not a new theme, but I think a big departure, big fork in the road.

14:15

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] I was also surprised it was not a bigger year for Apple. [SPEAKER_03] I feel Apple lost some ground this year, but sneak peek of my prediction. [SPEAKER_03] I think they're coming back. [SPEAKER_01] And Google gained enormous ground.

14:33

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Google has the biggest, biggest surprise, biggest delta, biggest—whatever you finance people call a change in sentiment.

14:38

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Oh, for sure.

14:42

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Not just sentiment, also in execution. [SPEAKER_01] If you just look at the usage of Gemini year over year, one year later, they, they were the most dramatic mover.

14:54

SPEAKER_01

Did no one really make any predictions about OpenAI?

14:58

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] I think by the December episode, we had just the same as now. [SPEAKER_04] I, I have nothing left to say. [SPEAKER_04] No, just kidding.

15:04

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] I have a lot. [SPEAKER_04] But did you guys see, by the way, The Information breaking this week that Amazon is in talks to invest $10 billion in OpenAI?

15:23

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Someone's got to do it. It's just chip diplomacy. It's “use those Trainium chips.” Someone's got to use them. [SPEAKER_02] The funny thing about that is $10 billion doesn't even get me out of bed anymore.

15:51

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] You're—$10 billion of a multi-trillion-dollar company.

15:54

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] That's the equivalent of—they're not even buying a Miata.

15:55

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] It's such an irrelevantly small number. [SPEAKER_02] And so it is a big number.

16:10

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Obviously, it's more than all the VC deployed in the air recede. [SPEAKER_02] But these things have so decoupled that $10 million is chump change that buys you three engineers. [SPEAKER_02] Or 10. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, 10, 10, and one, one bill per engineer. So when they announced this small cloud partnership, it was: “No, they're not just talking about a tiny cloud deal.” There's got to be a lot more to it. And I think commerce is the big shoe to drop. I think how goes commerce and any potential partnership between those two in commerce is obviously the thing to watch. [SPEAKER_02] I'd say, obviously, it's more than all the VC deployed in AI, per se.

16:23

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] But these things have become so decoupled that $10 million is chump change that buys you three engineers. [SPEAKER_02] Or 10.

16:26

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, 10, 10, and one, one mil per engineer. [SPEAKER_04] So when they announced this small cloud partnership, it was, no, they're not just talking about a tiny cloud deal. [SPEAKER_04] There's got to be a lot more to it. [SPEAKER_04] And I think commerce is the big shoe to drop. [SPEAKER_04] I think how goes commerce and any potential partnership between those two in commerce is obviously the thing to watch. So that's not a prediction because it isn't specific, but okay. [SPEAKER_04] Any other winners and losers of 2025? Hmm. I was surprised that Anthropic also stayed the course and is climbing on the same curve as OpenAI.

16:49

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Their choice to focus on software engineering was a huge breakthrough. [SPEAKER_02] So you're saying, Dave, that companies that focus can win? [SPEAKER_02] Indeed they can. [SPEAKER_02] You're saying focus is a good idea? [SPEAKER_01] The converse on this is: Does the massive amount—massive capex will be one story of 2025, right? [SPEAKER_01] And whether or not debt-funded capex was good or bad is yet to be determined. [SPEAKER_04] And also, specifically, the art of the massive capex press release.

17:26

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. But even with some of these deals, there's news today that Blue Owl is pulling out of a big Oracle project.

17:29

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] So everyone has the art of the deal mentality in their press announcements. [SPEAKER_04] And it's a good reminder that that's very different from money in the bank. [SPEAKER_01] Or shovels in the ground. [SPEAKER_04] Shovels in the ground. [SPEAKER_01] My favorite story is that there were ridiculous amounts of Texas rains this year. [SPEAKER_01] And so that put back a ton of these data center projects by almost a quarter or more because they literally just couldn't build them. [SPEAKER_04] There you go. [SPEAKER_04] Weather. [SPEAKER_04] Who knew? [SPEAKER_04] There goes our imprints. [SPEAKER_04] Okay. [SPEAKER_04] Let's look ahead, guys.

18:23

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] This is fun. [SPEAKER_04] Who wants to go first? [SPEAKER_04] I'll give Sam more time to prepare. [SPEAKER_04] Britt, pull up those digital notes. [SPEAKER_04] Okay. You've got it. I have four. And if you want me to do a pop culture one, I can, I can go for five. If you'd like. Want, need. I can do many pop culture ones, but I'll, I'll leave it to one. Okay.

19:05

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] My predictions for 2026. [SPEAKER_03] Speaking of Apple, I think they come back next year, both in the AI realm. [SPEAKER_03] They're going to make either one big acquisition, such as Anthropic. [SPEAKER_03] Spending money does not constitute coming back. [SPEAKER_03] Define coming back. [SPEAKER_03] I think that they will be a heartier competitor to the Googles and OpenAIs of the world in the AI race by this time next year. [SPEAKER_03] And I, I also think that they will have one new hit product next year. [SPEAKER_03] And I don't know if it's going to be for the home or something in the AR space or something else.

19:19

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] But I think, I think there's a sleeper product that's going to happen next year. Can you define hit? Would we call the Vision Pro a hit? [SPEAKER_03] Not the Vision Pro—more along the lines of when the Watch was announced, something. [SPEAKER_03] But one big acquisition and one new hit product, not the same thing.

19:28

SPEAKER_03

That's my Apple bet next year. And I think it gets them back into the cool kids' club in AI. I also think these go together, but they're separate. I think all four of us, by this time next year, are going to have a thing on us that is listening and summarizing our days for us. Whether it's a ring or a necklace or something, I think we will— We will all have them at this point next year. And we will still be in the early adopter cohort. But I think long term, a lot of people are going to start using these, even though they invade our privacy and all the things. But they're going to be so helpful to us that we're going to keep them around and keep them on.

20:03

SPEAKER_03

And similarly, I think each of us is going to have one primary agent. That's not just your OpenAI ChatGPT. It's, it's connected to more than one platform. So, to Amazon and GPT and your health data—something that is your primary agent. That starts to really know more about you. Today, actually, Google launched CC.

20:33

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] I don't know if you saw this. [SPEAKER_03] It's in Google Labs, but it is— [SPEAKER_03] It's part of Gemini built into their email, calendar, docs, workspace. [SPEAKER_03] And it summarizes your day ahead. [SPEAKER_03] And it actually is exactly what an assistant would send you.

20:53

SPEAKER_03

And I can see this, especially with commerce on the horizon. [SPEAKER_04] I ask Gemini every morning to summarize my day.

20:55

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] I just say, “Summarize my day,” in Gemini. [SPEAKER_04] So I used to try CC, but, but how do I find this in Google? [SPEAKER_04] I have to go into Google Labs.

21:01

SPEAKER_04

What do I have to do? Google Labs. Yeah. It's just Google Labs.

21:11

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] So it's— [SPEAKER_04] Oh, I'll figure it out. [SPEAKER_04] I can find my way around the internet. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah.

21:23

SPEAKER_04

It's probably Google slash Labs slash CC. [SPEAKER_03] Okay. [SPEAKER_03] And then, so we're gonna have a wearable thing that we're using and an agent. [SPEAKER_03] Maybe they'll be in the same category. [SPEAKER_03] Okay. [SPEAKER_03] And then I also think there's going to be one major AI talent deal with one major artist. [SPEAKER_03] This year we saw Matthew McConaughey and some B-list artists.

21:36

SPEAKER_03

But I think there's going to be someone really big, an A-lister, whether it's Beyoncé or somebody that's going to license themselves into their AI everything. And so we're going to start to see all the celebrity AI stuff really hitting the ground and then being infiltrated into music and movies and things with their AI. Then my last one is, I think there will be a new AI social app that actually works.

21:42

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] I think people are ready for the next thing in consumer social. [SPEAKER_03] And, and it's been really tough to break through for a lot of reasons for the incumbents. [SPEAKER_03] This year we saw Matthew McConaughey and some VC-list artists.

21:47

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] But I think there's going to be someone really big, an A-lister, whether it's Beyoncé [SPEAKER_03] or somebody that's going to license themselves into their AI everything.

21:50

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] And so we're going to start to see all the celebrity AI stuff really hitting the ground [SPEAKER_03] and then infiltrating music and movies and things with their AI. [SPEAKER_03] Then my last one is: I think there will be a new AI social app that actually works. [SPEAKER_03] I think people are ready for the next thing in consumer social. [SPEAKER_03] And it's been really tough to break through for a lot of reasons for the incumbents. [SPEAKER_03] And there will be one new thing that starts getting serious adoption next year. I think we need—I'm a little worried about serious traction or momentum. These are squishy concepts, but I'm willing to let it go.

22:23

SPEAKER_04

I don't know if I actually believe this, but here goes. I think a creator is going to win an Emmy. Do you guys know this? [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Well, does that mean a podcaster? [SPEAKER_01] Does that mean actually crossover? [SPEAKER_01] Didn't they add podcasting as a category? [SPEAKER_01] So does that even count?

22:51

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] Well, that was the Golden Globes. [SPEAKER_04] That was the Golden Globes. [SPEAKER_04] The Emmys—it's technically possible, but I know a lot of YouTube creators [SPEAKER_04] that are launching campaigns, and I bet one of them is successful.

22:57

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Creators that don't have TV shows, or they're trying to make their YouTube thing [SPEAKER_01] become considered a TV show? [SPEAKER_01] Because MrBeast made a TV show, right? [SPEAKER_01] No, no, these aren't—they don't have the Netflix special. They exist on YouTube. You guys also saw YouTube's going to get the Academy Awards.

23:21

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Streaming them. [SPEAKER_04] I don't know if that's a win or not, but interesting. [SPEAKER_04] YouTube TV. [SPEAKER_04] Yup.

23:33

SPEAKER_04

Nice.

23:36

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] They're going to hold dominance next year.

23:42

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] I agree. [SPEAKER_03] I concur. [SPEAKER_03] They remain dominant.

23:48

SPEAKER_03

We love YouTube TV. [SPEAKER_04] I think there are going to be massive layoffs across Silicon Valley. [SPEAKER_04] Oh, because of AI. [SPEAKER_04] Interesting. [SPEAKER_01] Why?

23:56

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] I think what's happening is we're still in the era where the companies are realizing they don't need to be this big. And so they're selectively cutting when other places cut, as Microsoft will do that. We'll trim here, and then Meta will trim here. But I think what will happen is there will be— I think that these CapEx investments are going to come under intense scrutiny. I don't think that— If you have an enterprise cloud business, maybe you'll have a story for investors on those, but otherwise, I think it's going to be really hard. And I think also these tech companies will get some leverage through AI in some specific ways.

24:41

SPEAKER_04

So I think there are going to be very significant layoffs. That doesn't outpace. I had a big tweet this week about taking stock of the fact that by the beginning of 2027, we are likely to be in a world of—Sam, are you talking? We can't hear you. That's because I was eating. [SPEAKER_02] I muted myself. [SPEAKER_02] I was saying you had a big Twitter week because you have a lot of Twitter followers, but you [SPEAKER_02] don't normally shitpost. [SPEAKER_02] I did. I don't think this is a shitpost. I was saying it was actually a job ad designed as a declarative statement, but I was saying, I think we're really headed—

25:35

SPEAKER_04

I think I've said this here—by the end of next year, beginning of the next, real chance of SpaceX IPO, OpenAI IPO, Anthropic IPO. So that's already been—yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] But what I was musing on, what I was musing on in the tweet, was I don't think we [SPEAKER_03] have considered the second- and third-order liquidity ramifications of that. Buy your Miatas now. [SPEAKER_02] Two people told me, or told someone who told me, that they bought houses after seeing me tweet that.

26:13

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] So, you're welcome. [SPEAKER_04] But anyway, that's a very high conversion of house bots. Yeah. To your posts.

26:19

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Two people bought a house. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

26:23

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] I presume they were in consideration and then pulled the trigger because I just

26:26

SPEAKER_04

tweeted it. But I also think—this was true this year too—but there were these very conflicting have-and-have-not narratives, right? Even within the tech world.

26:39

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] And so I think the continued growth, continued momentum about the big AI companies, more skepticism

26:45

SPEAKER_04

on their investments, but will be coupled with the last— This doesn't count as a prediction for next year, but a smart person on X pointed out in response to my post, he said, "After that comes the antitrust." And I think that is a really smart thing. If you start thinking about 2027, 2028, of course, political winds make a difference, but I don't

27:02

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] think the American people are going to want Elon Musk to be a trillionaire. [SPEAKER_04] I just don't. [SPEAKER_04] Now, the American people might not have much in their control to do about that, but imagine: [SPEAKER_04] Do we really want multiple $20 trillion companies?

27:11

SPEAKER_04

I don't know. So I thought that was an interesting—continue to connect the dots—which, by the way, is not— this isn't, in my mind, a statement that's hypey about AI and these companies, because this liquidity point is a big deal, even if valuations are half of what they are today.

27:25

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] So I think that's an important differentiator. [SPEAKER_04] I think the prediction markets are going to be hamstrung by regulation and face [SPEAKER_04] really tough years next year, specifically Kalshi and Polymarket. [SPEAKER_04] I think this has been a breakout year for them in a lot of ways, but I think [SPEAKER_04] they're getting ahead of their skis a little bit, especially when it comes to sports betting [SPEAKER_04] and other stuff.

27:34

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] So I think it'll be a really tough year for them, which isn't to say that they're [SPEAKER_04] not going to be a big deal. [SPEAKER_04] Today.

27:41

SPEAKER_04

So I think that's an important differentiator. I think the prediction markets are going to be hamstrung by regulation and face really tough years next year, specifically Kalshi and Polymarket. I think this has been a breakout year for them in a lot of ways, but I think they're getting ahead of their skis a little bit, especially when it comes to sports betting and other stuff. So I think it'll be a really tough year for them, which isn't to say that they're not going to be a big deal. I don't know if their growth or significance is going to shrivel, but I think they're going to be very stalled in there.

27:51

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] If this year was, to use the Uber analogy, the year they said, "Fuck it, we're going to do all these things anyway," I think next year is going to be a tough year for them. [SPEAKER_04] And then I guess I think one major company that is currently in the race to develop their own AI models will be using Gemini. One major company. What does that mean? An example?

28:04

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] It could be—I have some specific companies in mind, but I can't— Say them, but— It's pretty obvious.

28:10

SPEAKER_01

No, but I would include enterprise companies too.

28:11

SPEAKER_04

So I'm not just talking—I'm not just talking about Meta and the consumer race or something like that. I don't think Meta will actually be using full-on Gemini next year, but— Do you think there's a chance? [SPEAKER_01] All the reporting, which has not been from our team, has been heavy reliance— On distilling other models. I am not an AI researcher. I don't know what level of distillation is typical or not, but I take note of that reporting. Are we going to have to start adding a proof amount to models? [SPEAKER_01] This is 90 proof. [SPEAKER_01] This one's 70 proof. [SPEAKER_01] How distilled is it? [SPEAKER_01] It's all fuzzy, but I think there's so many people, right?

28:36

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] The Salesforces of the world. There are a ton, right?

28:40

SPEAKER_04

And I think at least one major, major tech company—you could do that by market cap or something—is going to go pretty full Gemini. I think that's what I got. [SPEAKER_03] Circle back to me later for a media one. [SPEAKER_03] Because I feel like I should do that. [SPEAKER_03] Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_03] I never did my pop culture.

28:49

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] We'll come back to that.

28:51

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] What about our friends over at Warner Brothers?

28:56

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] I think last week the prediction was it would go to Paramount, but it looks like it's going the other way.

28:56

SPEAKER_01

Is it? [SPEAKER_04] It does. At this moment, the scales have tipped.

29:01

SPEAKER_04

Well, last week Polymarket said 50-50.

29:04

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Let's see what they say now. [SPEAKER_04] I think we're still in the earliest innings of this deal.

29:07

SPEAKER_03

I think this is going to take a while to figure out. And I think we're not going to know until, what, mid-to-late January?

29:09

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Probably. [SPEAKER_03] I said, someone I've known since she ran MySpace PR in 2005, when they had— [SPEAKER_04] The privilege of covering that company, Dani Dudeck, who's run comms at Instacart. [SPEAKER_04] Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_04] Dani. Announced this week. [SPEAKER_04] She's going to run comms at Netflix. [SPEAKER_04] And I was like, "That is going to be fun." [SPEAKER_04] Buckle up, lady. [SPEAKER_04] I think she'll be great at it.

30:24

SPEAKER_04

Because she's also nice.

30:27

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] So that helps. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah.

30:35

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] So I don't know which way that deal's going, other than—was it you, Sam, last week who was like, "These media people just want to keep their names in the headlines"?

30:40

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] That's probably how that deal is going.

30:51

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Which means Paramount, right? [SPEAKER_04] If that's true. [SPEAKER_03] It means just prolonged mess and many twists and turns. [SPEAKER_04] There's also the variable of what's getting sold and how it's carved up. [SPEAKER_04] So I don't know.

31:06

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] Do not know.

31:09

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

31:12

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] Mr. Dave Morin. [SPEAKER_04] Oh, I have to go first.

31:17

SPEAKER_01

Well, you're technically third, but yeah. [SPEAKER_04] But way to only—way to consider only the male gaze. [SPEAKER_02] Yes. No, of the two of us who came into this winging it.

31:41

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] With so much advanced notice.

31:48

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] I'm strangely, strangely nervous about this. I don't like making predictions. You're an investor. [SPEAKER_03] You literally make predictions for a living. [SPEAKER_03] Well, okay. I'll go with a cultural one first, which is that I think that we're in this—it depends on how you count it—but we're five years post-COVID happening. And if you look at what's going on in San Francisco with retail spaces and third spaces, I think that, in combination with how tired people are getting of the internet and of digital culture rotting their brains, we're going to see an even more aggressive explosion in third-space culture.

32:51

SPEAKER_01

And we saw this happen with concerts and Taylor Swift's Eras Tour. And I think that's where people are just crying out for physical experience and real-world experience. And so I think that narrative is going to get even stronger this year and that people just want somewhere to go every Thursday. Right. And it's a really difficult thing to find these days. And we're hearing a lot of this from youth culture and things like this. What are examples? [SPEAKER_04] We've been hearing a lot about arcades. We're seeing pitches come through for the Soho House for families, for example. We've also seen a few of those— [SPEAKER_02] Gyms and spas, wellness memberships, sauna.

33:57

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] In New York City and LA, which are our front edge of culture, you've got a massive number of new clubs, but they're not just the nice place with a bar. It's like, this is a sauna. And we're hearing a lot of this from youth culture and things like this. What are your examples? [SPEAKER_04] We've been hearing a lot about arcades. We're hearing about—we're seeing pitches come through for the Soho House for families, for example. We've also seen a few of those.

34:42

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Gyms and spas, wellness memberships, saunas.

34:43

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] In New York City and LA, which are at the front edge of culture, you've got a massive number of new clubs, but they're not just a nice place with a bar. This is a sauna. This is a wellness experience. This is, yeah, a private health club.

34:57

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] There's just a lot of this going on for a bunch of different genres. [SPEAKER_01] Now I'm really curious if we're talking to the same people. [SPEAKER_02] This is the classic—you guys in the chat can figure it out. Well, now I'm quite curious because of who we're talking about. [SPEAKER_02] Because I—it's all good. [SPEAKER_02] No, I just think this is a real trend, and it's happening. [SPEAKER_01] You're also seeing this play out in travel culture. Wellness hotels and wellness-centric travel culture are exploding globally, which isn't the most insightful thing. [SPEAKER_01] You probably could have called that five years ago.

35:25

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] But I do think that people are looking for more meaning, more belonging, and more in-person experience, as much as they're looking for yet more digital experience in their lives. [SPEAKER_02] And so I think that narrative will become stronger this year and be a major narrative of '26. [SPEAKER_01] So that's number one. Similarly, I think you're going to see a tale of two cities in the Valley. One of the things that I'm noticing is that there's this really strong culture. [SPEAKER_01] We talked about it a little bit last week, where entrepreneurs are really going full influencer, full creator.

35:32

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] There's this—everyone's taking a page from the Elon, Sam Altman style of constant communication. [SPEAKER_01] And I think Gen Z, also having grown up terminally online, has this constant need to get attention, get attention, get attention, get attention. [SPEAKER_01] And I think that exists in creator culture, entrepreneur culture, media culture, music culture—all these different areas. [SPEAKER_01] And then, on the other hand, to my point that I just made, I think that people are also now looking for curated things, things that aren't just about attention. [SPEAKER_01] They're more about meaning and belonging.

35:39

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] And so I just think that you're going to see this. [SPEAKER_01] This is going to play out in a bunch of different ways across culture. [SPEAKER_01] And that might mean a return to a lot more businesses that have—Sam, I think we've talked about this a lot on the pod— [SPEAKER_01] But just real-world businesses that actually impact the actual atoms rather than just bits and have real, solid business models. [SPEAKER_01] On the other hand, I think you're going to see a lot more of that. [SPEAKER_01] You'll see it in terms of people deciding to get trade degrees rather than college degrees.

35:58

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] I think that acceleration is going to happen in the face of this digital, AI, constantly terminally online boom. [SPEAKER_01] I think that narrative is going to get even bigger. [SPEAKER_01] What else? [SPEAKER_01] I think you're going to see people start to go even more games-first with their launch strategies. [SPEAKER_01] I think this thing that happened with Daft Punk this year on Fortnite is actually the harbinger of much more of this going forward.

36:13

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] I think you're going to see IP holders actually start with games and then do everything else second. [SPEAKER_01] I think that's going to be a big thing. [SPEAKER_01] In 2026.

36:21

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Along with that, I don't know, we might see regulation against something like Roblox, which I think is actually continuing to do enormous damage to children worldwide.

36:23

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] And it's interesting: there was a big article this morning about Disney holding back their IP from Roblox, and I give them serious props for that. [SPEAKER_01] But I think that we're going to take this games-as-digital-community, games-as-social-media thing a lot more seriously in 2026, and parents are going to demand it. [SPEAKER_01] And that means more scrutiny on games.

36:27

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] I think people look at them as, “Oh, it's just a game,” rather than looking at it as, “No, these are actually the most sophisticated games—

36:31

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] And the most influential form of social media ever created.” [SPEAKER_01] Well, here's a data point for you. [SPEAKER_04] So, Lion's iPad is on its last legs. [SPEAKER_04] So he got a new one, and he's asking, “Is my stuff going to transfer over? [SPEAKER_04] Is my stuff going to—?” And I think—all he cared about was FIFA. [SPEAKER_04] I don't know. And FIFA. [SPEAKER_04] And I asked, “Did your downloads transfer? [SPEAKER_04] Did you—your school—?” It was just, “Oh, I don't care.

36:51

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Mom, FIFA works.

36:54

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] And I've maintained my level.” [SPEAKER_04] God forbid.

36:57

SPEAKER_04

The kid doesn't understand the cloud. [SPEAKER_04] Exactly. So anyway, I thought that was interesting. Those are good ones, Dave. Those are good predictions, Dave.

37:02

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] I'm thinking of starting a book club.

37:03

SPEAKER_04

Speaking of.

37:04

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] Oh, you have time for that? [SPEAKER_04] No, but I'm not—I'm reading The Correspondent, which I don't know. [SPEAKER_04] I don't know. [SPEAKER_04] Maybe it's just so good.

37:10

SPEAKER_04

It is so good.

37:11

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] It is an excellent book. [SPEAKER_04] And it was given to me as a gift in The Information Secret Santa—not by me, but by someone else. [SPEAKER_04] And so I thought that sparked it. [SPEAKER_04] So no, I don't have time, but I do think—anyway, I'm just validating. [SPEAKER_04] That's a plus one to your point. [SPEAKER_04] Sam, we've somehow made it to you. [SPEAKER_04] Sorry, I'm just finishing an email. Prediction one:

37:28

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] There will be one, but only one, $500 billion-plus IPO. [SPEAKER_02] Wait, but that counts SpaceX.

37:29

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] And it will be SpaceX. Well, or OpenAI. Yeah. OpenAI is not going to be next year. [SPEAKER_03] That's heavily discounting SpaceX. [SPEAKER_03] Why wouldn't you bring the number up? [SPEAKER_03] I'm just saying there are a few. Someone's got—it's also—look, who knows?

37:50

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] I'm just saying there's going to be one.

37:51

SPEAKER_02

It could be—it could be Anthropic.

37:53

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Who knows?

37:57

SPEAKER_02

They might have a killer year. Google will be up 15%. Nvidia will be down 15%. And Sam will still not have invested and will be complaining about it every week on the pod.

38:06

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

38:08

SPEAKER_02

OpenAI is not going to be next year. [SPEAKER_03] That's heavily discounting SpaceX. [SPEAKER_03] Why wouldn't you bring the number up? [SPEAKER_03] I'm just saying there's a few. It's someone's got—it's also—look, who knows? I'm just saying there's going to be one.

38:29

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] It could be—it could be Anthropic. [SPEAKER_02] Who knows?

38:34

SPEAKER_02

They might have a killer year. Google will be up 15%. Nvidia will be down 15%. And Sam will still not have invested and will be complaining about it every week on the pod. [SPEAKER_03] I will have made no money on either of these stocks.

38:52

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Meta will be at all-time highs. [SPEAKER_02] Meta at all-time highs. [SPEAKER_04] You're going to have to defend that. [SPEAKER_04] But first, Nvidia down how much? [SPEAKER_04] I didn't hear the number. [SPEAKER_04] 15%.

39:03

SPEAKER_02

Why? [SPEAKER_04] TPU story.

39:10

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Lots of other suppliers of the chips.

39:11

SPEAKER_02

They don't really have a monopoly on this stuff. Their price.

39:13

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] China, China, China. [SPEAKER_04] China, China, China. [SPEAKER_02] I just—they'll be fine.

39:15

SPEAKER_02

To be clear, it's a huge fucking company.

39:15

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] They do good stuff. [SPEAKER_02] I just—I think we're going to come 15% down.

39:18

SPEAKER_02

And I think Google comes 15% up, which is a fine year for them.

39:19

[SPEAKER_02] It's not a blowout year. [SPEAKER_02] It probably outpaces the market, but it's not crazy. [SPEAKER_02] Do you think the market stays stable/up next year? [SPEAKER_03] Overall? [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Look, I think my macro is that, going into next year, the government still needs to figure out how to make GDP go up. Right? That's the only thing. And so, as long as the government is stuck in “GDP go up,” right, then I think we will continue to manipulate things to make that go up. Manipulate things. That sounds like a good long-term strategy. [SPEAKER_03] No, it's just true. It's an election-winning strategy. [SPEAKER_04] It's narrative capitalism.

40:06

SPEAKER_02

Now, all-time high is easy, which is—I honestly think that two things will happen.

40:07

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] One—well, three things. [SPEAKER_02] One is— [SPEAKER_02] Actually, all-time high isn't that dramatic. I don't want to say—I think all-time high is fair.

40:17

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Here's the story. [SPEAKER_02] I think the ads—the AI ad story—is going to turn on big time this upcoming year.

40:22

SPEAKER_02

Huge time.

40:26

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] I'm seeing all these startups in the space doing insane revenue growth. [SPEAKER_02] And I just think that ultimately all accrues back to Meta. [SPEAKER_02] And the startups, Sam, are just finding ways to use AI to show better ads, target better ads. Is that—

40:30

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] Or just be, “Hey, here's my website. Generate all the ads for me and stick them places.” The entire automation pipeline is getting really good.

40:34

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] And so I think that'll all accrue back to Meta. [SPEAKER_02] I also just think they'll spend way more money on computers but figure out how to amortize the cost.

40:36

SPEAKER_02

And candidly, if they're not doing that, they'll just cut more Reality Labs, make number go up.

40:38

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Reality Labs is already diminutively small.

40:39

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] It doesn't even matter. [SPEAKER_01] No, it's not. [SPEAKER_01] They're still paying a fucking fortune on that shit. [SPEAKER_01] It's tiny compared to everything else.

40:45

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] What?

40:45

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Tiny is, I guess, relative. I guess it depends.

40:49

SPEAKER_02

Are we calling Amazon's $10 billion into OpenAI tiny? Then maybe it's tiny.

40:50

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] That is tiny. Yeah.

40:57

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Those are my predictions. [SPEAKER_02] Those are good. [SPEAKER_03] Interesting. [SPEAKER_03] Okay. [SPEAKER_03] They're specific. [SPEAKER_02] What about crypto?

41:57

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] No one talked about crypto. [SPEAKER_03] Crypto would be fine. [SPEAKER_02] That's all you talked about last year. [SPEAKER_03] So I'm just curious if you have a point of view.

42:15

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] So I—so it's interesting.

42:16

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Crypto's, I would actually argue, December—December, broadly, slightly down because everyone

42:18

SPEAKER_02

got really excited about Trump and there's a Trump bump, but they're not sure what the narrative is. And again, as I've said all along, the only thing that kills a narrative is a better narrative. And right now, the better narrative is split between betting on random things and AI, right?

42:27

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] So there's less excitement because it's a different thing.

42:28

SPEAKER_02

So I think it's fine. I don't think it dramatically changes.

42:29

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] It might be up a bit. [SPEAKER_02] I doubt it's down that much, but it is in that range.

42:32

SPEAKER_02

I would say—no, I shouldn't predict this. There's one thing that I'm very optimistic will be very exciting in crypto in the next

42:34

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] 12 months, but I don't want to say more than that right now. [SPEAKER_02] Oh my God.

42:41

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] What a tease. [SPEAKER_04] You can talk about it in a future pod. [SPEAKER_04] We can predict once a week for 52 weeks. [SPEAKER_04] In what timeframe will this thing happen? [SPEAKER_03] Q1? [SPEAKER_03] I predict that, in 2026, one very interesting thing will happen in crypto.

43:17

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I feel compelled to come up with a media prediction. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] I don't. [SPEAKER_04] I think you should. [SPEAKER_04] How about BuzzFeed goes bankrupt? [SPEAKER_02] Can BuzzFeed finally go bankrupt?

43:32

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] That's been on the table for years now. [SPEAKER_03] No? [SPEAKER_03] I know, but it just doesn't die. [SPEAKER_02] It's not going to go bankrupt next year. [SPEAKER_03] Why not?

43:44

SPEAKER_02

It's 30.

43:45

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Do you want to buy it? [SPEAKER_02] It's $33 million. [SPEAKER_02] I've been asked, and I said no every time. Dave, yeah. [SPEAKER_03] What about a prediction about prediction markets?

43:53

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] That's what we did. [SPEAKER_03] Jess did that.

43:58

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Well, no, I actually wonder if next year is the year. [SPEAKER_01] There are two ways I feel prediction markets could go. [SPEAKER_03] No?

44:13

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] I know, but it just doesn't die.

44:16

SPEAKER_02

It's not going to go bankrupt next year.

44:17

SPEAKER_03

Why not?

44:26

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] It's 30. [SPEAKER_02] Do you want to buy it?

44:32

SPEAKER_02

It's $33 million. I've been asked, and I said no every time.

44:36

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Dave, yeah. [SPEAKER_03] What about a prediction about prediction markets?

44:40

SPEAKER_02

That's what we did. [SPEAKER_03] Jess did that. [SPEAKER_03] Well, no, I actually wonder if next year is the year.

44:44

SPEAKER_01

There are two ways I feel prediction markets could go.

44:46

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] One, I'm hearing a lot of parents talking about their kids being addicted to sports betting on prediction markets, which, if that spirals next year, could bode badly for prediction markets.

44:47

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] And 2026.

44:48

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] On the other hand, you could see this become even more packaged with the financial markets and being able to take multi—I don't know—multi-hop positions on things, and the whole thing becoming a lot more like crypto and just ripping even further into the future because of the lack of regulation by the Trump administration.

44:54

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] But something I think about a lot in my head is the tension between gambling being a very real risk to youth and whether or not this is just the financialization of everything. [SPEAKER_01] Well, this is the narrative. If you look at the deals with the stock exchanges, the story they want to tell is the latter. But I just think it takes regulators and states some time. But they're just not going to sit here and say, “The billion dollars that we get in tax revenue on sports betting—we're just happy to give that up.” They're not. But do they get that on Kalshi and Polymarket? [SPEAKER_01] No, they don't. No, they'll figure out a deal around that.

45:38

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Look, here's my thing.

45:43

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I bet that Barron Trump loves this stuff. [SPEAKER_02] I bet he loves it.

45:56

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Barron. Barron. [SPEAKER_02] Trump's son. [SPEAKER_02] Okay.

46:01

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Why does that matter? [SPEAKER_04] But why does that matter? [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] The Trumps are directly making money from all this. [SPEAKER_04] Why does Barron need to like it for them to keep it around? [SPEAKER_04] I'm just saying I think that I think Team Trump is going to be very pro. [SPEAKER_02] But Team Trump also wants to make money for governments. [SPEAKER_02] So, broadly speaking, I know it's a state issue. [SPEAKER_02] I would say.

47:16

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] So long as Trump and Barron remain in power, if the power of Barron will be pro-gambling, Trump's also got to get government paid because he loves getting paid. [SPEAKER_02] So maybe there's going to be some federal pro-gaming, gambling unified market, but a kickback to government/Trump empire feels real if he's powerful enough for the next year. [SPEAKER_02] This is the thing for sure. There's no way that's not happening. The lawless, nobody's-making-any-revenue-but-these-prediction-markets thing—“Oh, we're not gambling. We don't—we're not subject to the same thing”—that's not going to keep going for very much longer. There's no way.

48:01

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] How about this from media? I'm trying to be interesting.

48:06

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Oh, this won't be interesting.

48:10

SPEAKER_04

This will be interesting to my 20 friends in my group chat. But I think there's going to be a major editor shakeup at a major publication. Yeah, no, no one even knows who they are.

48:15

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] No one cares. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah.

48:35

SPEAKER_04

Sorry, Jess.

48:50

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] No. [SPEAKER_04] And then there's the obvious one...

49:13

SPEAKER_04

Is that because you're going to take them all? [SPEAKER_01] No, it doesn't want them. [SPEAKER_01] No, I just think I just know some things. But then I think hundreds of journalists are going to lose their jobs to AI.

49:29

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] That's already happening.

49:29

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] The one area where I think that's interesting, Jess, is that maybe local journalism will rise again thanks to AI. [SPEAKER_01] Ah, the classic return of local journalism.

49:39

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Who's going to pay for it? [SPEAKER_03] It doesn't need to be paid for if you can get—I already have my ChatGPT Pulse telling me a lot about what's going on in my hometown, for example.

49:41

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] I think that this might be a good thing. [SPEAKER_01] I can make a letter meme for you, Dave, with cartoons. Ooh, cool. But you need—you need the information, Sam. [SPEAKER_01] That's part of the problem, is that without...

49:57

SPEAKER_01

I just scrape Twitter, make it up. [SPEAKER_02] People just want good stories anyway.

50:01

SPEAKER_02

It doesn't have to be real. Local markets don't have anything on Twitter.

50:11

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Doesn't have to be real. [SPEAKER_02] Oh, God. [SPEAKER_04] Cat saved.

50:15

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] This is also—I, one day, am going to publish this essay, but I'll just talk about it until then. [SPEAKER_04] But definitely the ROI on truth is changing, in the sense that there are times when it is actually somewhat economically rational, rational, not to need the truth. [SPEAKER_04] So, for example, this is what AI does, right?

50:23

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Sam made these podcasts for our kids that are pretty cool using ElevenLabs and AI. [SPEAKER_04] And if they get 85% of the facts about Napoleon right, you're being a reasonable human to look the other way on the 15%. [SPEAKER_04] But that is also a dangerous and slippery slope in terms of society knowing what's happening to itself. [SPEAKER_04] So we will accelerate that. [SPEAKER_04] Similarly, I have a similar prediction, I guess, about the startup market. [SPEAKER_01] And I think of this as “AI is the new UI.” I've been saying this for years, but I think 2026 might actually be the breakout year for this. [SPEAKER_01] What do you mean by that, Dave?

50:59

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Do you mean the chat interface, or do you mean AI? [SPEAKER_04] Okay. [SPEAKER_04] Say more. [SPEAKER_04] No, I don't. [SPEAKER_01] What I specifically mean: [SPEAKER_01] So, for example, last week somebody showed an example of rebuilding an interface for software called Harvey, which is this legal software that has been immensely funded. [SPEAKER_01] Somebody just used Claude Code, took one or two days, rebuilt it from the ground up, and then open-sourced it.

51:08

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] And I think that there's this future coming where you're going to be able to generate the UI for whatever task you want to accomplish.

51:09

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Using vibe code, or whatever you want to call it—using AI coding tools—you will be able to generate a UI for whatever task you want to get done in order to accomplish some business workflow or something like that, or even a personal workflow. [SPEAKER_04] No, I don't. [SPEAKER_01] What I specifically mean: [SPEAKER_01] So, for example, last week, somebody showed an example of rebuilding an interface for software called Harvey, which is this legal software.

51:16

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] That has been immensely funded.

51:20

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Somebody just used Claude Code, took one or two days, rebuilt it from the ground up, and then open-sourced it. [SPEAKER_01] And I think that there's this future coming where you're going to be able to generate the UI for whatever task you want to accomplish. [SPEAKER_01] Using vibe code, or whatever you want to call it, using AI coding tools, you will be able to generate a UI for whatever task you want to get done in order to accomplish some business workflow or something like that, or even a personal workflow.

51:29

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] So, this has mostly been the provenance of people like Sam and me and people who just want to mess around with these tools and build things themselves. [SPEAKER_01] But it hasn't been broadly available to consumers, not because they can't do it, but because they don't have the time to learn or whatever. [SPEAKER_01] And I think we're rapidly moving toward a world where the UI largely was the entire business model of SaaS for the last 10 years.

51:31

SPEAKER_01

Most of SaaS was: I'm going to build this complex UX on top of a Postgres database, then I'm going to sell it to a business by seat and make a big business through a sales motion. I think a lot of that is going to be threatened because people are going to be able to generate UIs to do things on top of data in a way that is very rapid and fast.

51:39

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] And we're going to see the early innings of this this coming year. [SPEAKER_01] And it's actually going to make the entire ecosystem question whether or not this SaaS business model that we've been using for the last decade is viable and whether a lot of the startups that are being funded right now are viable. [SPEAKER_01] And it's going to get really interesting really quickly. [SPEAKER_01] So, Dave, that's the Databricks thesis, right? [SPEAKER_04] That's definitely the thesis. [SPEAKER_04] I don't know the Databricks thesis.

51:50

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Well, because Databricks would be one of the underlying layers, right? It's a data river, data warehouse, data whatever, right? So, data intelligence. Sure. [SPEAKER_01] Whatever—you can put data into a lot of lakes.

52:00

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] But their thesis is: you're not going to need your Salesforces and so on, because you can have the data in one place and then you can build these flexible, tailored workflows and interfaces and so forth.

52:04

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] But I think this might extend across everything, Jess. It might start to be on your phone. You might just make an app on your iPhone that you want for one event or one workflow, and you might do it in a bunch of different ways. Not just on top of your data lake—it might extend across the entire UI layer.

52:06

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Because the not-so-bearish, although I hesitate to call it bullish, use case for legacy software, which is somewhat compelling, is there's just a lot of other stuff, like data storage, security, regulation, and also enterprise workflows. You can't—you can't. Probability doesn't work.

52:10

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] You can't probably show the best guess at data.

52:12

SPEAKER_04

So.

52:13

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] I might be early on this, but I think you're going to see the initial seeds of this kind of stuff happening next year pretty rapidly. Okay. [SPEAKER_02] I will say, in the spirit of AI impacts, I think this upcoming year is going to be the year of AI porn. [SPEAKER_02] Sure. [SPEAKER_04] I thought we were there already.

52:26

SPEAKER_04

What do you mean? [SPEAKER_02] No, we're not. [SPEAKER_02] We're not.

52:35

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] We're getting there, but there are just all these opportunities in the NSFW world where people have dabbled with AI, but I actually think it's not really that mainstream yet.

52:37

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] I think it's about to be super mainstream. [SPEAKER_02] Why? [SPEAKER_01] Just because the models are getting good enough. [SPEAKER_01] The model is getting good enough. [SPEAKER_02] People are figuring out what the product experience is or actually should be. There's just—yeah.

52:48

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I tried this new app from Google called Doppl a couple of weeks ago, where you could try outfits on yourself.

52:50

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] I really enjoyed this.

52:51

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] I really enjoyed this. [SPEAKER_03] I really enjoyed this.

52:57

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Oh no.

52:59

SPEAKER_01

I know what she's going to say.

53:05

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] One of Dave's comments was—there was one in a Kim Kardashian-esque dress where it also made my boobs look nicer. [SPEAKER_03] And Dave was like, "I could see more images of you in these dresses."

53:07

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] And he goes, "There should be an AI app where it's just your wife." [SPEAKER_03] You can style her in dresses.

53:10

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] I was like, "I would give my own licensing consent, but only to Dave." [SPEAKER_03] How would that work? [SPEAKER_03] I don't know how this all works in the future, but I could see how Google and Doppl were actually the first—this is the first AI model that could get my face right.

53:18

SPEAKER_03

And my body mostly right in many different instances of new images. I liked your ski getup. I liked that.

53:21

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] I thought that was good. [SPEAKER_03] Well, yeah, that one was good. [SPEAKER_03] Dave thought that was hot too.

53:26

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] I thought I commented on that one. These are good predictions. [SPEAKER_03] Wait, I have two last ones ready before we wrap.

53:31

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] We didn't talk about GLP-1s. [SPEAKER_03] I'll be fast right now. [SPEAKER_03] Will you be on a GLP-1?

53:41

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Eighteen percent of adults will have tried GLP-1s by next year. [SPEAKER_03] I think it's almost double. [SPEAKER_03] I think it's at least one in three, 33%.

53:47

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] It's more than half of The Information subscriber base who responded to a survey. [SPEAKER_03] Well, they're early adopters.

53:56

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] So that makes sense.

54:05

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

54:07

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] As the price comes down, everyone's doing it. [SPEAKER_01] My Taylor prediction is not only is she getting married, which we know, she'll have one new album and she will have one— [SPEAKER_03] She'll announce her pregnancy by the end of the year.

54:10

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] She's going to be 37, and girl's got to get on top of that shit. [SPEAKER_03] No, Britt, we know she's very clear about that. [SPEAKER_03] I know.

54:15

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] I'm just saying. [SPEAKER_03] One new album. [SPEAKER_04] That's probably true. [SPEAKER_04] I am enjoying the docuseries.

54:25

SPEAKER_04

Are you enjoying it? I don't know, but releasing two episodes every week is not my cup of tea. It's because she's building it up to Christmas.

54:28

[SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] It also doesn't—it's a very strange storytelling style. [SPEAKER_03] She'll announce her pregnancy by the end of the year. [SPEAKER_03] She's going to be 37, and girls have got to get on top of that shit. [SPEAKER_03] No, Britt, we know she's very clear about that. [SPEAKER_03] I know. [SPEAKER_03] I'm just saying. [SPEAKER_03] One new album.

54:40

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] That's probably true. [SPEAKER_04] I am enjoying the docu-series. [SPEAKER_04] Are you enjoying it? I don't know, but releasing two episodes every week is not my cup of tea. [SPEAKER_04] It's because she's building it up to Christmas. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] It also doesn't—it's a very strange storytelling style. [SPEAKER_01] They're jumping all over the place. [SPEAKER_01] They're jumping all over.

54:55

SPEAKER_04

I agree, Dave. It's thematic. Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] But then there's a couple of themes per...

55:02

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] That must be what it is.

55:02

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] They're saying, "Let's do it from different angles each episode," or something. [SPEAKER_01] It must be hard.

55:07

SPEAKER_01

There's a lot of stories to tell, I'm sure. But yeah, it's random so far. Does anyone want to proffer a want for the year for the industry? [SPEAKER_04] So these are predictions, but is there something we just really want to happen? [SPEAKER_04] Distributions.

55:12

SPEAKER_03

DPI, please.

55:16

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Okay. [SPEAKER_04] The VCs want cash. [SPEAKER_04] Okay. [SPEAKER_04] That seems simple.

55:20

SPEAKER_04

I've said it enough, but I just want the industry to take kids' mental health more seriously. [SPEAKER_01] That really is quite aspirational, Dave. [SPEAKER_02] I know. [SPEAKER_01] I know it's aspirational. [SPEAKER_01] Screen time and screen—and on that note, please give us better screen time controls. [SPEAKER_03] It's never going to happen. [SPEAKER_01] Again, my platform for running—not for office—is phones out of schools, Waymos in schools. It's very simple. Nice. [SPEAKER_01] I like it. [SPEAKER_01] Bring the Waymos, leave the devices.

55:41

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Oh, that's so good.

55:42

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Guys, bring the Waymos, leave the devices.

55:47

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] Oh, I also would like more plunging V-necks on Jess next year. Oh, thank you. This is a shout-out to Favorite Daughter. Yeah, I'm pro. [SPEAKER_01] You look great. [SPEAKER_01] We're all pro-plunging V-neck. [SPEAKER_01] I believe this is the Sarah Foster. [SPEAKER_04] Shocked, shocked. [SPEAKER_04] Hi, Sarah. [SPEAKER_04] And... [SPEAKER_04] Speaking of which, you guys didn't call it a nice T-shirt. [SPEAKER_02] Oh my God. [SPEAKER_02] My kids would love that. [SPEAKER_02] Guys, we walk into the Moose, as one does, and they have an ode to 6'7". [SPEAKER_04] We're saying, "What is going on?" [SPEAKER_04] I'm sure both of our boys will be buying that shirt.

56:10

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] It's so good. [SPEAKER_02] I got it from my meme talk. [SPEAKER_02] And then the hostess said, "It was our founding year, and it's dogged me all year." [SPEAKER_04] The real question of 2026 is: Will anyone be able to harness the power of memes like 6'7" to make actual money? [SPEAKER_01] Mimetic warfare. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I got you. [SPEAKER_02] Look at the Moose. [SPEAKER_04] I was going to say, the question, Dave, is: Are we going to have a good snowpack? [SPEAKER_04] I thought that would be your question. [SPEAKER_04] Well, there's also that. [SPEAKER_01] Are we going to get any snow? [SPEAKER_01] That's the real question.

56:10

[SPEAKER_01] That is my wish for 2026: that snow starts falling. [SPEAKER_01] Snow starts falling from the sky on the West Coast. [SPEAKER_04] The East Coast is getting it. [SPEAKER_04] It looks like it might tomorrow or something. [SPEAKER_02] It would be really, really funny. [SPEAKER_02] We still have a farm in Northern Vermont. [SPEAKER_02] I think it would be extremely funny to go on a ski trip to Vermont. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Great. [SPEAKER_04] You can go. [SPEAKER_04] I'd be happy to— [SPEAKER_04] There's some good skiing in Vermont. [SPEAKER_02] Depends on— [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, Jay Peak. [SPEAKER_02] It's just— [SPEAKER_02] Jay Peak, Killington.

56:10

[SPEAKER_02] It's just a funny concept to fly from California— [SPEAKER_02] To Vermont. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Well, dear listeners, I hope you got what you were looking for out of this predictions episode [SPEAKER_04] and this year of content. [SPEAKER_04] I think we're going to be back in 2026. [SPEAKER_04] We appreciate you. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] We are grateful to your community. [SPEAKER_04] I ran into some of our listeners at the 49ers game last week. [SPEAKER_01] That was cool. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] What was that? [SPEAKER_01] Who was that person? [SPEAKER_01] And at the Offline holiday party.

56:10

[SPEAKER_03] I think, Sam, it was the same person you met at the other event you went to. [SPEAKER_01] Really? [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Maybe. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] Do we have— [SPEAKER_04] Well, maybe we don't have a prediction for More or Less. [SPEAKER_04] I predict more of the same. [SPEAKER_04] We take all the feedback. [SPEAKER_04] We love it. [SPEAKER_04] So thank you, dear listeners. [SPEAKER_04] I'm wishing you guys all an awesome holiday. [SPEAKER_04] Please follow and subscribe. [SPEAKER_04] And we will be back here soon with another episode of More or Less. [SPEAKER_04] Bye. [SPEAKER_04] Bye, guys. [SPEAKER_03] See you later.

56:11

[SPEAKER_01] If you enjoyed this show, please leave us a virtual high five by rating it and reviewing [SPEAKER_03] it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. [SPEAKER_03] Find more information about each episode in the show notes and follow us on social media

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