Sweat Equity

Become a Dangerously Good Writer in 55 Minutes w/ Sam Parr

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Start with the signal

11 min read

Summary

At-a-Glance

  • Verdict: Skim
  • Core thesis: Effective copy moves the right prospect toward action by combining a targeted headline, unresolved curiosity, simple rhythmic prose, story-driven desire, proof, and systematic objection handling.
  • Why it matters: These principles can improve Ken's landing pages, product narratives, founder content, sales materials, and GTM experiments, while also providing concrete patterns for training or evaluating AI-generated copy.
  • Best use: Use the video as a practical framework and example library for copy audits; skim the headline, storytelling, copywork, and live ad-teardown portions rather than watching every repeated exchange and sponsor segment.

Executive Summary

Parr defines copywriting as behavioral influence rather than polished prose: understand what a particular audience wants, transfer an idea from the writer's mind into theirs, and move them toward an action. The goal is not universal appeal. It is to attract the right prospect and sustain that person's attention long enough for the argument to convert.

His core mechanism is sequential momentum. A headline creates attention and an information gap; each sentence earns the next; stories add tension and desire; proof and objection handling make the promised transformation believable. He rejects the idea that audiences inherently avoid long material, arguing that long-form copy often converts better when it remains interesting. He supports this with classic ads, a roughly 2,000-word CopyThat sales page that he says converts around 5%, and marketers running 27-minute video sales letters.

On execution, Parr recommends simple language, one point per sentence, varied sentence lengths, and aggressive editing. He cites a seventh-grade reading level as a useful ceiling, Warren Buffett's approximately 17-word average sentence length, and the practice of drafting freely before cutting heavily. The customer should be the story's hero and the brand its guide, rather than the product being introduced before desire exists.

The most reusable training method is copywork: manually reproduce proven ads, scripts, stories, jokes, designs, or videos until their underlying patterns become intuitive. The discussion is rich in examples and tactical heuristics, but it is also repetitive, includes sponsor reads and banter, and occasionally uses intentionally fabricated facts during improvised ad demonstrations. Ken should extract the frameworks and examples rather than treating every proposed claim as validated marketing copy.

Key Takeaways

  • Claim: Copywriting should be designed around a specific behavioral outcome and a defined audience, not around sounding sophisticated or appealing to everyone. | Evidence: Parr frames good copy as getting what is in his head into the reader's head and influencing behavior. He says the objective is to get the right person through the entire ad, not to persuade 100% of viewers, and uses AIDA—attention, interest, desire, action—as the basic sequence. | Implication: Ken should evaluate GTM copy against a declared audience and next action, rather than rewarding eloquence, generic engagement, or broad but low-intent reach. | Caveat: Influence tactics still need to fit the brand and audience; an attention device that feels manipulative or off-brand can filter out desirable prospects as easily as it attracts the intended ones.
  • Claim: The headline and opening must create an unresolved information gap that makes continuing feel necessary. | Evidence: Examples include David Ogilvy's Rolls-Royce headline, "At 60 miles an hour, the loudest noise in this new Rolls-Royce comes from the electric clock," and the classic piano-course ad, "They laughed when I sat down at the piano. But then I started to play." Parr connects this to open loops and Joe Sugarman's rule that the first sentence exists to earn the second. | Implication: Hooks for product launches, AI demos, investment memos, and founder content should create specific tension that the subsequent material actually resolves. | Caveat: A curiosity gap without a relevant payoff becomes clickbait; the unresolved question must lead naturally into the product argument.
  • Claim: Length is usually less important than sustained interest, and longer copy can outperform compressed copy when the offer requires education or trust. | Evidence: Parr says his CopyThat sales page is roughly 2,000 words on a plain white background and converts at about 5%. The hosts also cite telehealth affiliate marketers running 27-minute video sales letters and building nine-figure funnels, while Parr summarizes the principle as, "There's no such thing as too long, just too boring." | Implication: Ken should not force complex AI or enterprise offers into arbitrarily short formats; he should test whether a longer, well-structured explanation resolves more uncertainty and produces higher-quality conversion. | Caveat: The conversion figures are speaker-reported and context-dependent; they do not establish that length itself causes better performance.
  • Claim: Specific audience identification in the headline can reduce total reach while sharply increasing relevance and response. | Evidence: Parr cites BuzzFeed-style headlines such as "50 reasons you are from Denver, Colorado," Homesick Candles built around the scents of individual states, and Hampton copy beginning, "If you make over $3 million a year, then I know exactly how you feel." He summarizes the idea as "niches make riches." | Implication: Ken can improve outbound and landing-page performance by naming the operator profile, company state, revenue band, workflow failure, or strategic ambition more explicitly. | Caveat: Over-narrow targeting can constrain growth if the segment is too small or if aspirational buyers are excluded; some examples work because they also attract people who want to identify with the named group.
  • Claim: A persuasive sales story makes the customer the hero and the brand the guide, using tension to delay the product reveal until desire has formed. | Evidence: The Wall Street Journal's "Tale of Two Young Men" ad reportedly ran for 28 years and generated more than $2 billion in revenue by contrasting two similar graduates whose outcomes diverged. Parr says he adapted it for The Hustle's $300-per-year Trends product. He also describes a Hampton founder ad in which selling The Hustle left him facing seven lawyers and seven accountants without the peer group he needed. | Implication: Ken's product narratives should dramatize the operator's current constraint and desired transformation, positioning the system as enabling infrastructure rather than as the protagonist. | Caveat: Narrative structure cannot compensate for a weak offer or unsupported causal claim; the Wall Street Journal story implies that a subscription drove success without proving it.
  • Claim: Readable copy comes from simple syntax, deliberate rhythm, and aggressive editing rather than from complex vocabulary. | Evidence: Parr recommends writing around a seventh-grade level, using HemingwayApp.com, limiting each sentence to one point, and often replacing commas with periods. He says USA Today is around a fourth-grade level, The New York Times around seventh grade, and Warren Buffett's average sentence length fell from roughly 25 words earlier in his career to about 17 words. The discussion also recommends alternating short, medium, and long sentences and "writing with your eraser." | Implication: Ken should require AI-generated executive and GTM copy to pass both a comprehension test and a precision test, then edit for sentence-level rhythm instead of merely shortening total word count. | Caveat: Reading-level scores are rough proxies and should not erase necessary technical precision, especially in security, architecture, or investment material.
  • Claim: The fastest route to better writing is structured imitation of proven work, followed by performance-informed adaptation. | Evidence: Parr recommends a daily "copy hour" for three to six months, manually reproducing material such as The Boron Letters, The Great Gatsby, SNL scripts, acclaimed ads, or examples from the target genre. The host says he transcribed five high-performing videos, inspected their transitions and retention graphs, inserted new tension near a 12-second drop-off point, and then produced a video that reached 2 million views. | Implication: Ken can turn strong human examples into a labeled pattern library for both team training and model evaluation, then validate adaptations with funnel and retention data rather than subjective taste alone. | Caveat: Copywork is a skill-building exercise, not permission to publish copied creative or ignore intellectual-property and brand-distinctiveness concerns.

Detailed Brief

How the live ad teardowns diagnose weak conversion copy

  • Claims: For products whose benefits are difficult to trust, proof or visible transformation may be stronger than a generic benefit statement.; An educational narrative can operate as a Trojan horse: begin with a recognized problem, explain an unexpected mechanism, absolve the prospect of blame, and introduce the product only after the explanation creates desire.; Concrete visual comparisons make abstract quantities or risks easier to understand and remember.; Objections can be neutralized indirectly through anecdotes and demonstrations rather than through explicit rebuttal language.
  • Evidence: For AG1's AGZ sleep supplement, Parr rejects "The nightly drink for restorative sleep" as generic and proposes showing a before-and-after WHOOP score or a personal transformation instead.; For Caraway food storage, he improvises the visual headline "Imagine storing your food in the toilet bowl," followed by a proposed comparison between bacteria in old plastic containers and a toilet bowl.; He contrasts saying that movie popcorn contains 150 grams of fat with physically showing the equivalent amount of fat, and references the familiar visual of displaying how much of a Coke bottle represents sugar.; A Lenovo headphone creator handled quality concerns by saying he had not charged the headphones for three weeks and accidentally wore them in the shower, rather than merely listing battery life and water resistance.
  • Caveats: Parr explicitly says the sleep, vitamin, bacteria, and product-development facts in his improvised examples are made up for demonstration. Any production version would require source verification and compliant claim review.; Fear-based comparisons can attract attention but create regulatory, reputational, or trust risk when they exaggerate health or safety implications.
  • Implications: Proof formats should be matched to the prospect's principal uncertainty: measurable outcomes for performance claims, demonstrations for capability claims, and credible anecdotes for experiential objections.; The strongest creative concept may be a visualized contrast or mechanism rather than a rewritten product-benefit sentence.

Creative sourcing beyond the immediate industry

  • Claims: Distinctive creative is easier to produce when the source material comes from domains competitors are not monitoring.; Memorable phrasing can be engineered through established rhetorical structures such as repetition, alliteration, inversion, and familiar phrases with a small brand-specific twist.; Raw, frame-breaking operational stories can outperform polished production because they violate the audience's assumptions.
  • Evidence: Parr keeps publications such as Thrasher, Popeye, old JFK Jr. magazines, Japanese architecture magazines, and fiction nearby to borrow imagery, tone, and phrasing from outside the technology and business echo chamber.; He cites Winston Churchill's repeated "We're going to fight..." construction and "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself" as examples of syntax making language memorable.; A raw video showing Parr's father's onion brokerage—two phones, a calculator, a computer used for YouTube, and a Pack 'n Play serving as the office daycare—received about 4 million views. The reported metrics included an 80% three-second stop rate, approximately 50% retention around 33 seconds, a 35-second average watch time, and roughly 10,000 direct follows.; The onion video was subsequently turned into a Hampton ad by connecting its unconventional $10 million-plus business setup to the value of meeting frame-breaking founders.
  • Caveats: Borrowing structures and inspiration is different from reproducing protected wording, imagery, or campaign concepts.; The onion video's novelty and family authenticity may not be reproducible through scripted corporate storytelling.
  • Implications: A differentiated brand voice may come from combining patterns across unrelated cultural sources rather than optimizing against the same competitor swipe file.; Operational reality can itself be compelling creative when it overturns a widely held assumption about how a successful company should look.

Notable Concepts & Terms

  • AIDA: Attention, interest, desire, action—the sequence Parr uses to structure an argument from hook through conversion.
  • Mind the gap: Create an unresolved difference between what the audience knows and wants to know, producing tension that encourages continued attention.
  • Open loop: A teased but unresolved promise or question; multiple loops can be layered through a script to support retention.
  • Slippery slope: Joe Sugarman's idea that each sentence has one job: make the reader continue to the next sentence until the sales argument is complete.
  • Rule of consistency: Once someone takes a small action, they are more likely to take a related larger action; the video applies this principle to both reading momentum and progressive requests.
  • Customer-as-hero: The buyer undergoes the transformation while the brand plays the guide, preventing product-centered storytelling from crowding out the audience's own stakes.
  • Failed solution: A narrative device that names what the prospect already tried, explains why it failed, and removes blame before presenting a new mechanism.
  • Copywork: Manually reproducing exemplary creative to internalize its rhythm, transitions, structure, timing, and underlying rules before creating original variations.

Operator Notes / Why Ken Should Care

  • Create a scored copy-review rubric for Ken's team and agents covering audience specificity, first-line tension, sentence-to-sentence momentum, proof, objections, factual support, and explicit next action.
  • Build a licensed internal corpus of strong landing pages, founder stories, sales emails, video scripts, and ads; annotate each example by hook type, narrative structure, proof format, objection addressed, and outcome metric.
  • Run a controlled test of concise versus long-form versions for one complex AI offer, holding audience and offer constant while measuring qualified conversion rather than click-through rate alone.
  • Add claim verification as a mandatory stage between AI-assisted ideation and publication, particularly for health, security, financial, competitive, or quantified statements.
  • Instrument short-form creative with retention checkpoints and establish thresholds for the three-second stop rate, major drop-off points, average watch time, conversion, and downstream lead quality.
  • Mine customer calls and support logs for exact failed-solution language, hidden objections, and recognizable situations that can become hooks without fabricating pain points.
  • Maintain a cross-industry swipe file drawn from consumer magazines, direct-response archives, political speeches, fiction, comedy, and visually distinctive brands rather than relying only on AI and technology competitors.
  • When a piece of organic founder content performs unusually well, test a paid adaptation that preserves the original story and adds only the minimum bridge to the offer.

Source/Metadata

  • Title: Become a Dangerously Good Writer in 55 Minutes w/ Sam Parr
  • Transcript words: 14160
  • Duration seconds: 3358
  • Timestamp note: No timestamps or chapters were present in the supplied transcript; several passages were duplicated and sponsor reads were embedded.
Full transcript 12402 words · 62 min read
0:00

SPEAKER_02

You're reading this not because you want to, but because I want you to. Now you're reading this second sentence because, again, I'm telling you and forcing you to read this. This is called copywriting.

0:08

SPEAKER_00

This is Sam Parr, founder of The Hustle, a newsletter empire he built from scratch. He's also the co-host of one of the leading business podcasts in the world, My First Million. Today, he's breaking down the exact copywriting frameworks that built his businesses.

0:24

SPEAKER_02

No one will read this or watch this. This is too long. No, it's not interesting enough. The goal is not to get 100% of people to buy what you want. It's to get the right person to read all of the ad, and a large percentage of them are eventually going to buy.

0:40

SPEAKER_02

So I want to focus on the importance of copywriting in this episode.

0:44

SPEAKER_03

There are two tweets that you put out that I'm going to highlight. One in 2022, one in 2020. First one: Because copywriting isn't just writing words. It's understanding what people want and how to get them to do what you want them to do. And then sometimes figuring out which words are needed to get the desired outcome. That's tweet number one. Tweet number two: Good copywriting means getting what's in my head into yours and influencing your behavior, getting you to do what I want. How did you use copywriting to land a first date with your wife, then? I saw this really pretty lady in a restaurant at a happy hour.

1:15

SPEAKER_02

One of the basic principles of copywriting is AIDA: attention, interest, desire, action. And I was thinking, what's a good A? I need to grab her attention. And I was with my friend Lily, who was just a buddy of mine. And I said, "Lily, that girl is really pretty." "I've got to stop her." "When she walks by, I don't know what to say." And as I was saying that, she said, "Oh, hey, what's the difference between a chickpea and a garbanzo bean?" And she said, "Huh?" And I said, "I don't pay $500 to have a garbanzo bean on my face." And she was stunned. And I said, "Classic garbanzo." "Big hummus fan, huh?"

1:52

SPEAKER_01

She thought it was hilarious.

1:53

SPEAKER_02

And I said, "I'm Sam. Nice to meet you." Yeah. It's high risk, high reward.

1:56

SPEAKER_01

Because if it doesn't land—but it's good. Because that wouldn't be your brand of comedy.

2:01

SPEAKER_02

If she didn't laugh at a good pee-on-my-face joke, then... We always talk about this.

2:06

SPEAKER_03

When you meet somebody new and you start testing the waters with jokes to see what you can land, what you can't, and what you have to take back. But what I tell our salespeople here, and what I've always told our salespeople, is the same for flirting.

2:17

SPEAKER_02

You can say virtually anything as long as you make them laugh. Yes.

2:20

SPEAKER_01

As long as you make someone laugh and smile.

2:22

SPEAKER_02

And it's clear that you're not supposed to be harmful. The key is to talk to them like you know them already. Yeah, I call that restaurant owner energy.

2:30

SPEAKER_01

You don't want to make it seem like you're stiff. [SPEAKER_01] Because then they'll say, "What's wrong with this person?" I call that restaurant owner energy. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

2:37

SPEAKER_02

You walk over: "Hey, buddy, nice to see you again." "How's the family?" "How's everything going?" "You guys have a great time?" "Hey, hey, come here, Cheryl." "Can you fill these guys up with some wine?" That's exactly my experience yesterday in Little Italy. [SPEAKER_03] The guy just came with so much energy. [SPEAKER_03] "Oh my God, how's your daughter?" [SPEAKER_03] "Let me get her some."

2:48

SPEAKER_03

"You like ice cream?" "Okay, I'll get you ice cream." It was out the gate. Asking the three-year-old if she likes ice cream. Smart. But I wanted to touch on that just because of the importance of headlines, right? There's the David Ogilvy quote: "On average, five times as many people read the headline as read the body of copy." "When you've written your headline, you've spent 80 cents out of your dollar." You mean the quote from this book? [SPEAKER_02] From that one right there. And half the stuff—if you've ever seen me write about copywriting or talk about copywriting—I'm really just stealing. [SPEAKER_02] That one.

3:13

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] Yes.

3:15

SPEAKER_03

I have both of them.

3:21

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] This is phenomenal.

3:22

SPEAKER_03

This is the best book that you could read on copywriting. [SPEAKER_02] And one of the reasons why it's great is it's less popular than this one. [SPEAKER_02] And so you can just steal a lot of it. [SPEAKER_02] Right.

3:26

SPEAKER_02

And no one will know. Now, what I want to do is show you five headlines and have you break them down, mostly from classic ads, because there is no soul in copywriting in today's world. [SPEAKER_03] There is. There is. You just have to find it.

3:44

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] It's hard to find.

3:44

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] I think there was one that you talked about. What is it? [SPEAKER_03] Get Flakes or something like that. [SPEAKER_03] Flakes is awesome.

3:46

SPEAKER_03

I use their shampoo all the time. [SPEAKER_01] I love their ads. [SPEAKER_01] I will say a great place for copywriting is the New York subways these days. [SPEAKER_01] A lot of these display ads on the subways are starting to hit as well.

3:51

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you could find it. The first one that I want you to break down is a classic. "At 60 miles an hour, the loudest noise in this new Rolls-Royce comes from the electric clock." [SPEAKER_02] "What makes the Rolls-Royce the best car in the world?" [SPEAKER_02] This is a David Ogilvy ad, right? [SPEAKER_02] It is.

4:08

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I love it. It's so good. He sold a lot of cars from this. This is actually from this book, I think, actually, isn't it? It is. [SPEAKER_03] It's in there. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, you could find it. [SPEAKER_01] The first one that I want you to break down is a classic.

4:21

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] At 60 miles an hour, the loudest noise in this new Rolls-Royce comes from the electric clock. [SPEAKER_02] What makes the Rolls-Royce the best car in the world? [SPEAKER_02] This is a David Ogilvy ad, right? [SPEAKER_02] It is.

4:29

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I love it. It's so good. He sold a lot of cars from this. This is actually from this book, I think, isn't it? It is. [SPEAKER_03] It's in there. [SPEAKER_03] He spent something on it.

4:52

SPEAKER_03

It was weeks just writing that single headline. Yeah, what a lot of people do—they don't realize that they... [SPEAKER_02] Usually, what people do is write an article and then, at the last minute, write the headline. [SPEAKER_02] And I think that has changed.

5:05

SPEAKER_02

Now, young people know with YouTube that the hook and the packaging are more important than the thing, than the actual video. And so I think they know that better now. But I actually don't know too much about the background of this ad. Do you? Yes and no. [SPEAKER_03] What I'm more curious about is you reading that headline and that headline being known to be one of the best headlines. [SPEAKER_03] What do you take away from this?

5:13

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Is it because of the curiosity gap that's...

5:14

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] It's the curiosity gap, which is... So you always have to mind the gap. The best example of this would be... There's a headline. Have you guys ever... Do you guys remember Upworthy? How old are you?

5:24

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] 20?

5:31

[SPEAKER_01] 30. You're 30? You guys might remember Upworthy. Do you guys remember Upworthy? No. [SPEAKER_02] Okay. [SPEAKER_02] So, back before TikTok and a lot of social media stuff, there were just viral articles on Facebook.

5:38

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And there would be these articles that said, “The top 10 reasons why you shouldn't go camping.” “You're not going to believe number seven.” Yeah. Okay. Do you remember that style? You would see that on Meta a lot. [SPEAKER_03] There's this one guy who created that... This blog called Upworthy. And actually, Joe, my partner who's around here, had an Upworthy competitor. And Joe's website went from zero to 200 million monthly visitors in a matter of... Holy shit. Six months. Because they would write these articles. And it was clickbait. So it was junk. But anyway, that was inspired by an old ad that might be in one of these books. And it was...

6:15

SPEAKER_02

“Everyone laughed at me when I started playing the piano.” “Then they heard me play.” And that's the same thing, where it's, “Huh?” “What?” Okay. It's called minding the gap. There's something that grabs your attention. And I need to figure out and read the rest of this to release the tension.

6:25

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] So this is one of the most famous ads of all time.

6:26

SPEAKER_02

“They laughed when I sat down at the piano.” “But then I started to play.” What's he selling? A course on how to write piano. It was for the music... Oh, no way. [SPEAKER_03] U.S. Music School.

6:33

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

6:34

SPEAKER_02

It was for a music...

6:35

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Was it a course?

6:35

SPEAKER_02

A written course? Who wrote this? Is this... Is this... If you said the name...

6:41

SPEAKER_03

Claude Hopkins?

6:45

SPEAKER_02

Yes. [SPEAKER_03] Is that who that is? Yes.

6:52

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

6:52

SPEAKER_02

That's a good ad. This is one of the most famous ads of all time. Break down what minding the gap is. [SPEAKER_03] Minding the gap is when you're telling a story and you need it to be resolved. Similar to how music needs to be resolved. Have you ever seen on The Office where someone ruined the song for Andy, and he's, “Oh, I've got to resolve that melody”?

7:08

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] It's the same way with headlines. [SPEAKER_02] So human beings aren't very good at leaving a cliffhanger. [SPEAKER_02] You have to know what it is. [SPEAKER_02] And so, with good copy, the headline needs to say something that grabs someone's attention, and they have to continue through the rest to know what's happening. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. This is something that we both do a lot in our scriptwriting for our short-form content: open loops. Open loops are exactly what I'm describing. When you create an open loop with a curiosity-driving hook, it's especially in short-form content.

7:29

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Because back in the day, people's attention spans weren't so cooked. [SPEAKER_01] But now you have to stack open loop on open loop as you're writing that script. [SPEAKER_01] I hear people say that all the time. They always say people's attention now is different from what it used to be. I actually disagree with that. I think human attention was always—it's always been the same. You've always had to do the same thing. You've always had to—you think? I guess maybe retention would be. No, I have zero data. I'm just trying to say my opinion here. But I think that a lot of people think long means bad.

8:02

SPEAKER_02

I would say long still converts. Longer-form things still almost always convert better. The issue is that people use the words “long is bad” or “no one will read this or watch this.” “This is too long.” No, it's not interesting enough. Correct. And so I always try to tell people that long will almost always convert better. Ugly will almost always convert better. Yes.

8:18

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] But it just has to be interesting. [SPEAKER_02] The biggest eye-opening experience that I've had in that realm is getting into the telehealth space last year and going up against these deep, gray-area affiliate marketers. [SPEAKER_02] I would say long still converts. Longer-form things still almost always convert better. [SPEAKER_02] The issue is that people say, “Long is bad,” or, “No one will read this or watch this.” [SPEAKER_02] “This is too long.” [SPEAKER_02] No, it’s not interesting enough. [SPEAKER_02] Correct. [SPEAKER_02] And so I always try to tell people that long will almost always convert better.

8:43

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Ugly will almost always convert better.

8:45

SPEAKER_02

Yes. But it just has to be interesting.

8:47

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] The biggest eye-opening experience that I’ve had in that realm is getting into the telehealth space last year and going up against these deep, gray-area affiliate marketers. Who? Just random guys who were selling GLP-1 brands. I’m sure you saw the Medvi thing. Yeah.

8:58

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] So, what people would do is—to your point, I built a short-form content agency.

8:59

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] I thought short form was the way.

9:03

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] These guys are running 27-minute video sales letters before a YouTube video, right? [SPEAKER_01] Betting that no one’s going to click “Skip Ad.” No, long is always better.

9:09

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And it’s insane. [SPEAKER_01] They would spin up these nine-figure funnels, and you’re just, “How is this— [SPEAKER_01] how is this working?” [SPEAKER_01] But it’s because a boomer is.

9:21

SPEAKER_01

In general. So, have you guys seen this website I have called CopyThat.com? [SPEAKER_02] I went through the course. [SPEAKER_03] So that makes a full-time salary that pays for a lot of my living expenses. [SPEAKER_02] And that is a sale. [SPEAKER_02] In New York or Austin? [SPEAKER_02] In New York.

9:33

It’s just 2,000 words on white with a white background. Yeah. And that page converts at probably 5%. Wow. So 5% of people who go to it buy it. [SPEAKER_01] Pretty good. [SPEAKER_01] If I remember correctly, too, is it one of those—it’s almost like Inception, right? [SPEAKER_01] Where you’re, “Here’s good copy.” [SPEAKER_01] You just read this copy at the end of the sales letter. Don’t you say that or something?

9:50

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Maybe. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. You’re, “I got your ass if you made it this far.” Well, there’s a famous hook that I always used to use. So I would always use this hook where it says, “You’re reading this not because you want to, but because I want you to.”

10:02

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02] “Now you’re reading this second sentence because, again, I’m telling you and forcing you to read this.” [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] This is called copywriting. [SPEAKER_02] I’m getting you to fall down the slippery slope, not because you want to, but because I am making you.

10:19

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I love, I love. Breaking the fourth wall a little bit. I love that stuff. Yes. Something that’s been interesting for me is all of my quote-unquote short-form content. [SPEAKER_03] Usually, I played in this realm of 45 seconds.

10:32

SPEAKER_03

Now I’ve been extending it to a minute 15, a minute 20. All of that content has been performing better, but I’ve been adding significantly more curiosity gaps, almost every eight seconds within the video.

10:34

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] But it’s been interesting to see the data. [SPEAKER_03] You know who does that really well? Tony Robbins. So if you read a Tony Robbins book, they’re so freaking long. They’re about 800 pages. And I’ll be, “In this chapter, I’m going to tell you about this. But wait until you get to the next chapter. That’s when you’re going to see something that’s going to blow your mind.” It’s like a YouTube script—the intro for a YouTube script. [SPEAKER_03] Put it into it. [SPEAKER_03] You’re just always teasing. When I was a kid, I looked like Napoleon Dynamite. So I couldn’t really get girls.

11:05

SPEAKER_02

And so I had to read every pickup artist book there was to get someone to have a crush on me.

11:05

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And one of the—it’s half the shit that I know about marketing.

11:07

SPEAKER_02

I just stole from pickup artist books. But there’s this idea that whenever you talk to a girl, you want to put a time constraint on.

11:10

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Because then they feel, “Okay, I know he’s going to go in a minute.” [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

11:19

SPEAKER_02

Therefore, I don’t mind letting him finish his spiel. So when you talk to someone: “Hey, guys, I’ve got to go back to my buddies really quick. But I had a question.” Something like that.

11:23

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Or, “I only have one minute because I’m running late.”

11:24

SPEAKER_02

But really quick. It’s a really good way to snap someone into it. [SPEAKER_01] Exactly. [SPEAKER_01] And so what I’ve noticed is that if you do that in copy—“What I’m about to tell you next is really going to blow your mind. But really quick, let me tell you this.” Right. That’s a really good tactic. Yeah.

11:34

SPEAKER_01

Good way to answer to detail. Yeah.

11:36

SPEAKER_02

Oh, it’s Oz Pearlman. You guys know the magician? Oh, it’s Oz Pearlman. That’s who he just had on.

11:43

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I don’t know who. [SPEAKER_02] Dude, he was doing it to me the whole time.

11:49

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Is he doing the stuff with pro sports teams?

11:54

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] He’s the hypnotist? [SPEAKER_01] Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_02] And he was constantly doing pickup artist stuff where he was, “All right, really quick.

12:01

SPEAKER_02

We’re going to do this, and I’m going to have you do this.” He just had me eating out of his hand. Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Do you think it’s getting you in a trance? [SPEAKER_01] When he’s doing it? [SPEAKER_01] With this headline specifically that I want to show you, I want you to break down almost how you can do targeting with your headline. [SPEAKER_03] How you can talk to the specific individual, get their attention.

12:14

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] These are famous Rolex ads. [SPEAKER_03] Oh, I stole all of these. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

12:17

SPEAKER_02

So you don’t even have my favorite one, which is, “The men who shape destinies wear Rolex.” That’s the best one.

12:18

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] He just had me eating out of his hand. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

12:26

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Do you think it's getting you in a trance? [SPEAKER_01] When he's doing it? [SPEAKER_01] With this headline specifically that I want to show you, I want you to break down almost how you can do targeting with your headline. [SPEAKER_03] How you can talk to the specific individual, get their attention. [SPEAKER_03] These are famous Rolex ads. [SPEAKER_03] Oh, I stole all of these. Yeah. So you don't even have my favorite one, which is, "The men who shape destinies wear Rolex." That's the best one. So good.

12:57

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] That's the best one.

12:59

SPEAKER_02

What was your question? I didn't even—I was paying attention to this Rolex ad. There's also that Delta one back in the day. [SPEAKER_01] It's for a guy who has a girl in every city.

13:13

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

13:20

SPEAKER_02

That was the one?

13:20

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] The question is more centered around how you can use the headline to target a specific kind of individual or interest. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] So a good example of this is BuzzFeed.

13:28

SPEAKER_02

They used to do articles where it's, "50 reasons you are from Denver, Colorado." And the goal is that it will only appeal to people from Denver, Colorado, but 30% of them are going to click on that. I always just say niches make riches. And so it's the easiest way to get a high engagement rate. And so, yeah, this does a good job where they are targeting people who—no one's going to be a sailboat racer.

13:39

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] But there are a lot of people who want to be. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And so, yeah, these work really well.

13:52

SPEAKER_02

Or another example is I knew this company that started this thing called Homesick Candles.

13:52

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And it was a candle that was the smell of each of the 50 states. [SPEAKER_02] I don't know what Texas would be, but Washington was evergreen—tree, I guess, tree. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And so they killed it selling these candles because a huge percentage of Washington—

13:58

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, if you're from Washington. [SPEAKER_01] Bought it.

14:01

SPEAKER_01

But also, if you moved away from Washington, you can then get that for your mom. There's an expansion. Yeah.

14:03

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] And we do those ads for Hampton. [SPEAKER_02] We'd be: "Look, if you make over $3 million a year, then I know exactly how you feel." [SPEAKER_02] You feel this way.

14:09

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] And then I explain it and speak very intimately to them. [SPEAKER_02] Well, and that's probably a huge reason you do the MoneyWise thing.

14:15

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] And I've been seeing you have a piece of content that you've been ripping recently where it's the difference between the levels of wealth.

14:16

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Or it's: you're at $1 million, you're at $10 million, you're at $100 million, and then you're at $1 million. [SPEAKER_01] It needs to be a series. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] It needs to be $100 million. [SPEAKER_01] You're doing that in multiple different formats, though, right?

14:31

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] I feel it's—I've seen it several different—

14:34

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] No, I haven't, but that's a good idea. [SPEAKER_02] That should be a series. [SPEAKER_02] You could do a whole YouTube video on that. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, I agree with you.

14:49

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] To be honest, you'll do. [SPEAKER_01] Rip. [SPEAKER_03] Because when you did it, it got covered on Inc.

14:58

SPEAKER_03

It got covered on Forbes. Did it? What I don't want to get into is something you taught me when I was—for context, I worked at the hostel under— What age did you work there? [SPEAKER_02] How old was I? Yeah.

15:07

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] 24, 25. [SPEAKER_03] That's awesome. [SPEAKER_03] You would talk about taking something that's well known, so taking a phrase that's well known, and then spinning it to almost recreate it so that you attach a brand. [SPEAKER_03] Maybe it wasn't. I don't know. I'm just kidding. [SPEAKER_03] I talked so much that I could have forgotten. But essentially, the idea of getting lost in the crowd. [SPEAKER_03] Okay, you can take that idea and be, "Okay, how do we twist it to make this unique to our brand?" [SPEAKER_03] Which example did I do that on? [SPEAKER_03] That I don't remember, but this copy is a good example of it.

15:41

[SPEAKER_03] You may get lost, but not in the crowd. They have another good one. Did you see the one where it's, "No one wants to have sex with you when you're in a Volkswagen"? I know what you're talking about. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] There's the Lamborghini one as well. [SPEAKER_03] That's, "Pick up nine—nine times more women in this than the Lamborghini." [SPEAKER_03] I'm sorry. [SPEAKER_03] It was a van ad. [SPEAKER_03] No, these are cool. [SPEAKER_02] These old Porsche ads. [SPEAKER_02] So actually, my brand, Hampton, we just stole British racing green from a lot of these ads. [SPEAKER_02] That's the color they used.

16:07

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] This is called—there's this book that Dharmesh, the founder of HubSpot, told me to read, and I can't remember the exact name, but it just gives you tons and tons off the sun of two. [SPEAKER_02] So you can link to it. [SPEAKER_02] It gives you tons and tons of ways to use phrasing to your advantage. [SPEAKER_02] So, for example, "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself." [SPEAKER_02] So that's a—that's a style of phrase. [SPEAKER_02] And it gives you 10 different types of phrases that you can steal.

16:17

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Or, for example, Winston Churchill gave this famous speech after the Battle of Dunkirk. [SPEAKER_02] And it changed the course of the war because England was not going to win World War II because the English were meek and afraid. [SPEAKER_02] And he was: "We're going to fight on the beach. We're going to fight in the ocean. We're going to fight in the water. We're going to fight on the ships." [SPEAKER_02] And it's this way of using language to make it really more memorable.

16:28

SPEAKER_02

And there are all these really cool frameworks that you can use. Using alliteration and all those. For example, Winston Churchill gave this famous speech after the Battle of Dunkirk. And it changed the course of the war because England was not going to win World War II because the English were meek and afraid. And he was: “We're going to fight on the beach.” “We're going to fight in the ocean.” “We're going to fight in the water.” “We're going to fight on the ships.”

16:48

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And it's this way of using language to make it much more memorable.

16:49

SPEAKER_02

And there are all these really cool frameworks that you can use. Using alliteration and all those. Because the syntax does matter. [SPEAKER_01] Right? [SPEAKER_01] Sure. [SPEAKER_01] Because the only thing you have to fear is fear itself. [SPEAKER_01] You're being very specific. [SPEAKER_01] “The only thing you have to fear...” Curiosity gap.

17:01

SPEAKER_01

And then it gives that payoff at the end.

17:04

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] There are a lot of these really cool phrases. [SPEAKER_03] Well, I think that it's something that you would always say too. [SPEAKER_03] It's this idea of punching somebody in the face with the—the first word needs to punch, or the first sentence needs to punch you.

17:13

SPEAKER_03

Can you give us an example of copy that you've written that does that? Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] “You're reading this because I want you to.” [SPEAKER_02] If I were going to sell a copywriting course, that's the first sentence.

17:22

SPEAKER_02

You had an ad for The Hustle, which was: “My friends think I'm smart. I'm not; it's really because I just read The Hustle.” Right. So we probably spent $10 million on that ad. Yeah.

17:34

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] That ad was singularly responsible for the exit to HubSpot. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

17:36

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. That ad significantly outperformed. It was crazy how much money that one ad made us. And it had the Ben Franklin dollar bill. Yeah. I know because it converted me. Did it really? Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] For a while, it was Mark Cuban—Mark Cuban's face. And he sent me a cease and desist. And he never knew. I've since talked to him once or twice, and he still doesn't know that I'm that guy. Sorry, Mark. [SPEAKER_03] The next element I want to get into is storytelling. [SPEAKER_03] So punch somebody in the face, get their attention with a headline. [SPEAKER_03] But now it's about writing copy that sucks people in. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I call it the slippery slope.

18:27

SPEAKER_02

That's actually one of the axioms of Joe Sugarman's books. Joe Sugarman's book is about getting someone to fall down the slippery slope. Break down: What is the slippery slope? [SPEAKER_03] Because I do have an example that I want to ask you about. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. Look, there's this idea called the rule of consistency. If you've done one nice thing for me, you're more likely than not going to continue doing something nice for me. So a little bit of a joke is, if I want you to do something nice for me, I'm going to be talking: “Hey, can you hold that for me?” And then I'm going to actually ask you for the favor that I really want

19:00

SPEAKER_02

to ask you because you're already doing something for me. Yeah.

19:02

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] For sure. [SPEAKER_02] There are these little tricks that you can do: [SPEAKER_02] You ask someone to do something for you. [SPEAKER_02] For example, they did this crazy study where, let's just say that I'm a [SPEAKER_02] politician and I want to get you to put this huge sign in your front yard that says [SPEAKER_02] you're going to vote for me. [SPEAKER_02] The best thing to do is to say, “Hey, can you put that little sticker in your window?” [SPEAKER_02] And then two weeks later, I'm going to come back and say, “You're a huge supporter.” [SPEAKER_02] “I'm only going to do this for a handful of the huge supporters.”

19:35

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] “Can we put this big sign there?” [SPEAKER_02] The odds are that you're going to do it. [SPEAKER_02] I think it's 40% higher because of the law—the law of consistency. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] This is a study that's been done over and over and over again. [SPEAKER_02] And so once you get someone to start falling down the slippery slope and start reading,

19:57

SPEAKER_02

they're going to start reading the whole ad. Or, as Joe Sugarman famously said, the purpose of the first sentence is to get you to read the second sentence.

20:00

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And the purpose of the second sentence is to get you to read the third sentence, and so on. [SPEAKER_02] And then, with good copywriting, the goal is not to get 100% of people to buy what you want. [SPEAKER_02] It's to get the right person to read all of the ad, and a large percentage of them are eventually [SPEAKER_02] going to buy. [SPEAKER_02] All right. So over the last two years of building Nibble, shipping nearly 8,000 UGC ads, and getting performance data on every single one of them, it became super clear: [SPEAKER_01] There are two types of brands: those that understand creative volume and those that don't.

20:21

SPEAKER_01

The core difference was what they focused on. Brands that focused on volume plus hit rate were never complaining that Meta changed the algorithm. Their stuff just worked.

20:26

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] And anytime we did work with one of those savvy brands, it was always on the same platform: [SPEAKER_01] Motion. Motion is by far the best tool to optimize your creative pipeline, [SPEAKER_01] providing the structure, visibility, and insights that your creative team needs to make better decisions. [SPEAKER_01] I like to think of it as what Meta would actually show you if they cared about your success. [SPEAKER_01] All the key metrics—three-second stop rate, winning angles, formats, competitor research— [SPEAKER_01] are built into their platform so you can make quicker and better decisions.

20:49

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] They even just launched their new AI agent, Runneth, which functions as a 24/7 creative strategist,

20:53

SPEAKER_01

providing recommendations to your ad account. Y'all, make sure to go check them out at motionapp.com.

20:59

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] All right, let's get back to the episode. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And you've probably—I think you've put up that graphic before where it's: “Good writing is like music. It starts. It stops.” [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And it has this color-coded syntax. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. It's: “Some sentences are short. Some sentences are just a little bit longer.” [SPEAKER_01] It's all built into their platform, so you can make quicker and better decisions.

21:18

SPEAKER_01

They even just launched our new AI agent, Runneth, which functions as a 24/7 creative strategist, providing recommendations to your ad account. Y'all, make sure to go check them out at motionapp.com. All right, let's get back to the episode. Yeah. And you've probably—I think you've put up that graphic before—where it's: [SPEAKER_02] Good writing is like music. It starts. It stops.

21:39

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And it has this color-coded syntax. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Some sentences are short. Some sentences, they're just a little bit longer. [SPEAKER_01] And some sentences will keep on writing because they're going to tell you about what you're going [SPEAKER_01] to read next. And it's going to say, “You need to be prepared for this, that, and this.” [SPEAKER_01] Understood? [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] So, yeah, it needs to be a little bit of a rapper, where it's short, medium, long, short. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. That's—I love rhythm when it comes to writing. That's my favorite thing.

22:23

SPEAKER_02

It's such a powerful way to keep someone's attention, rather than how so many people will just ramble and speak in the same length of sentence over and over. Yeah. And if you're new to writing, there are a few rules. Well, the first thing is you should write at a seventh-grade reading level. And if you don't know what that means, you should go to HemingwayApp.com. You just put your copy in there, and it'll tell you what reading level you're at. But USA Today, which is a popular newspaper, is at a fourth- grade level. And The New York Times, which some people think is a smart person's newspaper,

22:49

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] is at a seventh-grade level. And so, usually, what you want to do is have one sentence make one point. So if you're going to use a comma in a sentence, oftentimes you want to use a period instead. The second thing is, for rhythm, it's really good to start the second or third sentence—the next sentence—with “and” or “but.” Yeah. I do that all the time. It helps create rhythm and transition words. But usually, when [SPEAKER_01] you need to have a comma, use a period. Short sentences [SPEAKER_01] are the best. Warren Buffett [SPEAKER_01] does something amazing. He explains incredibly complicated things, like the insurance business,

23:28

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] which is a very complicated thing, in very simple sentences. So Warren Buffett is famous for writing these, these annual letters where he breaks down the [SPEAKER_01] business, and anyone can read them and understand a little bit about GEICO, which is a very complicated company. And the average length per sentence—I went and analyzed it— is 17 words. Not a lot. And actually, he started at 25 when he was younger, and over the years, it's consistently gone down to 17 words. It might be as short as 14, but last time I looked, it was 17. Isn't that the secret to copywriting, though? Constraint forcing clarity?

23:59

SPEAKER_02

Yes, 100%. And if you look at some of the best authors that you like—I love, if you just look at the classics, Hemingway—

24:01

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] his book The Old Man and the Sea will say, “The man was sad. He wanted to go fish.” And it's a pretty

24:02

SPEAKER_02

profound book. And so, you can have these pretty profound feelings and emotions and everything, but said simply. Yeah. I think it was Sean's. Sean had a thing back in the day—Sean, your co-host— and it was, “Write your first draft, then cut a third, cut a third, and then cut a third.” And then cut a third again. It's called killing your darlings. Yeah. And I honestly have used that. That has been such a guiding principle for all the best copy I've ever written because it just makes you get the damn word out there that you're actually trying to say, rather than all these different clauses and different ways to write a

24:20

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] sentence. [SPEAKER_02] In Cut30, we always talk about the idea of writing with your eraser. You're going to write [SPEAKER_02] your script, and then you're going to write with your eraser and chop it completely down. [SPEAKER_02] One of my favorite writers would say, “Write drunk and edit sober.” David Ogilvy famously [SPEAKER_02] says, “I'm a writer. I'm a great editor.” That's so good. [SPEAKER_02] And so, yeah, you’ve got to write the crap. You just have to get it out on paper. [SPEAKER_02] Part of that magic is seen in the Wall Street Journal ad that they ran for 28 years. [SPEAKER_02] Love that ad. It was “The Tale of Two Boys,” right? [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

24:49

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] What was the headline? I don't remember. “On a beautiful spring afternoon 25 years ago,

24:54

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] two young men graduated from the same college. They were very much alike, these two young men. [SPEAKER_02] Both had been better-than-average students. Both were personable, and both, as young [SPEAKER_02] graduates, were filled with ambitious dreams. But recently, the men returned to college for their 25th [SPEAKER_02] reunion.” And it goes on to say that they were different. And the reason they were different was one

25:17

SPEAKER_02

of the kids, when he was young, got a subscription to The Wall Street Journal, and the other one didn't. And the one who did was significantly more successful. This ad ran for decades. Twenty-eight years. Was it for 28 years? Twenty-eight years. Ran in print? [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

25:48

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] And drove over $2 billion in revenue.

25:52

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I actually stole this. So at The Hustle, we had this publication that was $300 a year called Trends. And I just, just blatantly ripped it off. Twisted 3%. Huh? You probably twisted it 3%. Yeah. Yeah. I modernized it a little bit. [SPEAKER_01] But I was pretty mercilessly copying it, and it crushed it for us. We made a lot of money. [SPEAKER_01] What are some of the things that you read in this that people could walk away from? [SPEAKER_01] Story. Story, story, story. A lot of people are afraid to add stories when they're [SPEAKER_01] trying to sell stuff with copywriting because they think it's going to make it too long. There's no

26:50

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] such thing as too long, just too boring. And the best thing to make something interesting is to make it a story. [SPEAKER_01] Everything has to be a story. And a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end, with a little [SPEAKER_01] bit of tension in there. I modernized it a little bit. [SPEAKER_01] But I was pretty mercilessly copying it, and it crushed it for us. We made a lot of money. [SPEAKER_01] What are some of the things that you read in this that people could walk away from? [SPEAKER_01] Story. Story, story, story. A lot of people are afraid to add stories when they're

27:21

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] trying to sell stuff with copywriting because they think it's going to make it too long. There's no

27:28

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] such thing as too long, just too boring. And the best thing to make something interesting is to make it a story. [SPEAKER_01] Everything has to be a story. And a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end with a little [SPEAKER_01] bit of tension in there.

27:41

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

27:47

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] What are some things that you add to those stories to create tension? [SPEAKER_01] Well, the hero's journey a little bit. For example, in this case, this is—

27:56

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] this story is the hero's journey. The hero's the boy who ended up being successful, and the guide, [SPEAKER_03] the one who saves him, is The Wall Street Journal. And so a good brand positions themselves as the guide, [SPEAKER_03] and the hero of the story is your customer. And so this boy was in college, he was lost, [SPEAKER_03] but then something happened, and he overcame and became the hero. And it was reading The Wall Street Journal that guided him to see where the light is. And even, even I think in the hero's journey,

28:16

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] there's always the return to the origin, or there's always that stage where the hero

28:20

SPEAKER_02

returns. And that's—he sees his buddy at the original place where

28:23

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] they had met before. Yeah. So that's a pretty effective one. A lot of people don't like using [SPEAKER_02] stories because they think it's going to be too long, but just add—if you're watching this and you have [SPEAKER_02] something that can be sold, just copy that. Yeah. Well, I feel like the story is almost [SPEAKER_02] something that we're, we're losing now a bit, right? And I feel like, in two ways,

28:41

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] it's more important than ever because of AI. And then on the other end, because of platforms like Meta, the stories don't really exist in an ad library. Yeah. But you made an ad for me that

28:49

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] fucking crushed it. And it was a story. Understood. Understood. Yes. But at the same time,

28:53

SPEAKER_02

that's, that's one out of 10. What was that ad? It was the story about how there was this—when I was selling my company, The Hustle, there was a distinct moment where there was a meeting with me and 14 people. And it was seven lawyers and seven accountants on HubSpot's end. And they were asking me questions. And I was, "What the fuck am I doing here?" I should feel successful right now, but I feel way overwhelmed. And that's when I needed a group of peers that I wish I had to help me sell my business. And that's one of the reasons why we started Hampton. It was very much a founder story, but then putting in the

29:25

SPEAKER_02

hero's journey a bit. Whereas, if Sam had Hampton, then he would have been in a completely different position. So it started off with, "This is Sam. Sam's about to make some life-changing money." But, and then it goes into, he's in this scenario where he's talking to all these lawyers.

29:42

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] A little "but, therefore," right? Because there's the Trey Parker, South Park stuff [SPEAKER_02] where that's also a really good storytelling mechanism. And then there's settled.

29:50

SPEAKER_02

I want to not admit, the comments make fun of me, though, because I was in my twenties, and I don't look like I'm in my twenties now. Oh, and they think that I'm describing it now. My biggest thing is, I struggle reading a lot of the ads that are on Meta now because it, it lacks the depth that you are going into. And I feel like it's almost created that habit where everything needs to be two sentences. As an example, everything needs to be very short, short. A lot of the incentives are just to shove the benefits in your face. Yes. Right. It's, "Hey, you person who experiences this problem, we have this solution." Something that

30:15

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] we do a ton is the concept of a failed solution as well. So you want to absolve the viewer of [SPEAKER_03] guilt. It's, "Hey, you tried to solve this problem with your stress, but it didn't work. [SPEAKER_03] That's not your fault. You just didn't have the right ingredient. You just didn't have this specific mechanism." And I feel like that's another: "Hey, maybe you

30:32

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] didn't feel super confident in that business meeting. It's not your fault. You just didn't have the right [SPEAKER_03] peers." That's pretty good. Yeah. The thing that I've done with, with short form to do exceptionally well [SPEAKER_02] is copy work. And I tell everybody that I learned that from you, where I'll transcribe [SPEAKER_02] different scripts or transcribe different videos. Copy work is game-changing. Do you know what copy [SPEAKER_02] work is? Yeah. You just write it down. Oh my God. It's the greatest thing ever. I use it for

30:53

SPEAKER_02

everything. I guess we should probably explain what it is. Yeah, I will in a second. So, but I'll set context where my first million-view video on, on Instagram specifically, I was [SPEAKER_01] getting stuck at every video getting 100, 150, 200,000 views. And I'm, "Okay, this is good." But of course, everybody wants to get that million-view video. [SPEAKER_01] I did a bunch of copy work, shifted my, my script based on everything that I did in the copy

31:15

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] work, and that video out the gate got 2 million views. Right. And it was, it was literally two days of me [SPEAKER_01] just, "Okay, let me get—I got five good scripts or five videos that all had millions and [SPEAKER_01] millions of views." And I—and I saw elements, as you were just saying: "Okay, they, they added a [SPEAKER_02] transition word right here." So it was, "But then this happened, and then therefore this [SPEAKER_02] happened. And then I'm gonna create some tension here so that they're gonna—" And what I was looking at as well was the retention graph, seeing where people dropped off. So if

31:33

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] everyone's dropping off at the 12-second mark, then I was, "Okay, here's where I'm going to

31:34

SPEAKER_02

introduce some new tension," right, or a curiosity gap. And those elements that I learned from doing copy work literally shifted the, the performance of my videos. What is copy work? How do you do it? And what are the benefits? So copy work—the best way to explain it would be if you know how to play any instrument.

31:44

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Okay. So if I said, "Alex, here's a piano." I played the drums a long time ago. Okay. [SPEAKER_02] But let's say you didn't know how to play the piano. And I sat you down at the piano and I said, [SPEAKER_02] Everyone's dropping off at the 12-second mark. Then I was thinking, okay, here's where I'm going to [SPEAKER_02] introduce some new tension, right? Or a curiosity gap. And those elements that I learned from [SPEAKER_02] doing copy work literally shifted the performance of my videos. What is copy work? How do

31:51

SPEAKER_02

you do it, and what are the benefits? So copy work—the best way to explain it would be if you know how to play any instrument. Yeah. Okay. So if I said, Alex, here's a piano. I played the drums a long time ago. Okay. But let's say you didn't know how to play the piano, and I sat you down at the piano and said, “Have at it. Go write a hit song. Talk soon.” It would be impossible, right? You can't write a song that way. Instead, we've mastered how to teach people instruments within one year. If you practice two hours a day, you can be a phenomenal musician. And the way that we

32:10

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] teach people to play instruments is: you learn “Jingle Bells” by copying it. And then you learn maybe [SPEAKER_03] “Happy Birthday,” and then something a little bit more complicated, a little bit more complicated. And then eventually your teacher will say, “Hey, you like rock and roll. Let's learn some Foo Fighters songs or a Green Day song.” And then you're, “Oh, I like that.” I'm, “Let's play a Lady Gaga song. I like this song. Let's play Nirvana. I don't know.” And you start playing all this stuff, and you see the rules and the texture of how other

32:20

SPEAKER_02

people do it. Then you're thinking, “You know what? I'd like a little bit of this. I like a little bit of that.

32:24

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] And I like a little bit of this. I'm going to combine it because I've noticed that my favorite [SPEAKER_02] things—this is the pattern they follow. So I'm going to steal that, steal this, steal this.” [SPEAKER_02] Copywork is—you can use it for anything—but in regard to writing, it's when you find [SPEAKER_02] writing that you love, and even not writing you love, but writing that's regarded, generally speaking, [SPEAKER_02] as good. And you copy it word for word. You sit down for an hour and you—and I did this for months. [SPEAKER_02] You did this with The Boron Letters, didn't you?

32:38

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Is that The Boron Letters? Yeah. I did it with The Boron Letters. I did it with [SPEAKER_01] The Great Gatsby. I did it with SNL scripts. I did it with all types of shit.

32:42

SPEAKER_01

Now, y'all already know we are super skeptical on this show about most AI tools promising the world. They have flashy demos, huge promises, and ultimately underdeliver. But I do have to tell you about one that has blown me away and saved my team countless hours of time. And that's RichPanel. [SPEAKER_02] Imagine a 24/7 customer support engine that handles all of your tickets seamlessly,

32:51

SPEAKER_02

escalates anything requiring human intervention, and, here's the best part, upsells your customers in the process. Their onboarding process is, frankly, one of the craziest things I've ever seen. You input your brand, and within 15 minutes, it has full context on the latest drops

33:00

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] and product information and plugs into all of your apps. That's not even to mention the cost savings. They're three times more affordable than their competitors. I couldn't recommend this enough. So if you're a brand looking to turn support into an asset, go check out richpanel.com and tell them we sent you. Do you think the SNL script helped you get funnier? Well, I'm not funny, so no, but it helped me get funnier.

33:08

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_03] And so, but you could. [SPEAKER_02] Because that's—I feel people are always asking, “How do I learn humor?” [SPEAKER_02] It would 100% work if you just copied other people. [SPEAKER_02] Right. [SPEAKER_02] And so, for example, I got into hip-hop one summer, and I was thinking, [SPEAKER_03] “How does Kanye do this beat?” And so I literally would just recreate the beat, and I'm, [SPEAKER_03] “Oh, cool. And I know how to do it now. That's cool.” [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Little 808. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Yes. And you learn exactly how that works. And

33:24

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] that works for writing, but it works for anything, anything that you want to develop good taste in. [SPEAKER_02] The number one thing to do is just blindly copy until you find the rules of the [SPEAKER_02] language that you're trying to speak. [SPEAKER_02] And it's super important to write it down, right? Because that actually— [SPEAKER_02] It needs to be in your brain. [SPEAKER_02] It needs to be in your brain.

33:36

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] It's different. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. You have to, you have to feel the texture. [SPEAKER_02] Actually, there's science that shows you remember things more by being physical than typing.

33:46

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And even in therapy, that's why they have you write things down. Because it's almost [SPEAKER_03] like you can transform based on the things that you write. Right? So if you're going through [SPEAKER_03] something, you could write down how you're getting better. [SPEAKER_03] This is my five-year journal. [SPEAKER_03] I love this thing. [SPEAKER_03] You know what this is? [SPEAKER_03] I can't open it because I have writing in it, and people will see it. [SPEAKER_03] But every single day—well, here, let me find a page that I— [SPEAKER_03] There's a page I haven't done.

33:57

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] So this is 7/30. [SPEAKER_01] So what's that? [SPEAKER_01] July 30th. [SPEAKER_01] So year one, year two, year three, year four, year five. [SPEAKER_02] So most days—obviously, you saw I don't do it— [SPEAKER_02] but most days, I'm writing an entry on how I feel that day. [SPEAKER_02] Then I could see how I felt that day the year before. Yeah. And so writing things down has changed my life. It's been a very—this is a cool tool. Definitely. I like how it's structured. It's awesome. [SPEAKER_01] It's a great product too. [SPEAKER_01] It's a great product. [SPEAKER_01] The aesthetic is really strong. [SPEAKER_01] I know. [SPEAKER_01] I wanted to sell that.

34:46

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] The other segment that I want to go into is: [SPEAKER_01] I now want to give you, essentially, bad ads. [SPEAKER_01] And I want you on the spot too. [SPEAKER_01] I'm not that good of a copywriter. [SPEAKER_01] You are. [SPEAKER_01] People talk about you. [SPEAKER_01] People talk about you. [SPEAKER_01] I think people are good. [SPEAKER_01] I'm not that good. It's awesome. [SPEAKER_01] It's a great product too.

35:20

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] It's a great product. [SPEAKER_01] The aesthetic is really strong. [SPEAKER_01] I know. [SPEAKER_01] I wanted to sell that.

35:33

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

35:33

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] The other segment that I want to go into is: [SPEAKER_01] I now want to give you essentially bad ads. [SPEAKER_01] And I want you on the spot too. [SPEAKER_01] I'm not that good of a copywriter. [SPEAKER_01] You are. [SPEAKER_01] People talk about you. [SPEAKER_01] People talk about you. [SPEAKER_01] I think people are good. [SPEAKER_01] I'm not that good. [SPEAKER_01] It's just that most people are bad. [SPEAKER_01] You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01] I'm a guy who knows how to play a handful of songs on the guitar at a senior party. [SPEAKER_03] And then you call me a good musician. [SPEAKER_03] But that guy still commands the room.

36:15

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] Let's be clear. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] He's a—I'm a dwarf among midgets. [SPEAKER_03] He's still the coolest guy there, though. So I'm going to start with AG1. So I'll give you context. They released a supplement called AGZ. I don't know if you've seen it. Sleep supplement. Nightly rest. Their first new product they launched in 15 years. Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] It's just a sleep supplement. [SPEAKER_03] Nightly rest is within arm's reach. [SPEAKER_03] AGZ combines magnesium, L-theanine, and saffron to support every phase of rest without the grogginess of melatonin. [SPEAKER_03] Okay.

36:49

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] The copy on the actual visual is, “The nightly drink for restorative sleep.” [SPEAKER_03] So I'll give this to you. [SPEAKER_03] And I want you to change what you would—how you would—especially write this headline. [SPEAKER_03] For an ad like this, the best ad would be proof. [SPEAKER_03] So it would just be a quote, or it would be a picture of someone's WHOOP that says, “Before taking this, after taking this.” [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Transformation. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

37:00

SPEAKER_03

I would think that “The nightly drink for restorative sleep”—

37:04

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] That's so basic. [SPEAKER_03] That's a pretty bad ad for this one. [SPEAKER_03] I would probably do a before and after, and I wouldn't even show the product. [SPEAKER_03] So just a transformation of somebody looking exhausted and a sleep score. [SPEAKER_03] For supplements, there's proof. [SPEAKER_03] The second way you could take it is— [SPEAKER_03] Can you put that into an actual headline for somebody who doesn't understand what you mean by proof?

37:23

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Because I'm guessing it's, “93% of people are now sleeping eight hours.” [SPEAKER_03] I think it's a personal story. [SPEAKER_03] It's, “I almost didn't wake up for my little one,” or something like that. [SPEAKER_03] It's speaking to who the person is. [SPEAKER_03] It depends who they're targeting, but I can give you an example of an ad that I would do for this person. [SPEAKER_03] I'm following the ADA method. That would be educational. [SPEAKER_03] So I would say—I don't know anything about sleep. [SPEAKER_03] So all the facts that I'm going to say, I'm making up. [SPEAKER_03] ADA method is attention, interest, desire, action.

37:46

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] There's a scientific reason why, after the age of 35, 75% of men wake up between 2 and 3 a.m. [SPEAKER_02] Okay. [SPEAKER_02] So that's going to be my attention. [SPEAKER_02] Attention. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Then the interest and desire. The interest is going to be the feeling when you're sleeping perfectly fine and you wake up and you're not sure if you have to go pee or what's going on. [SPEAKER_02] And for some reason, for the past five years, you just thought this is age. [SPEAKER_02] You just thought that this was normal and I should accept this. [SPEAKER_02] And then you get them to desire.

38:06

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] You say, “The truth is that the reason you feel this way is because you lack vitamin D.” [SPEAKER_02] Haven't you noticed that you almost, you almost always get this way during wintertime?

38:12

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Because the world that we live in—it's a lot less—I don't know if it's true.

38:16

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I don't know. [SPEAKER_02] I don't think about it. It's a lot less sunny than it was before. [SPEAKER_02] Or you're spending your days inside.

38:19

SPEAKER_02

And so the reason why you wake up— Blue light or something. It's not your fault. It's because you simply don't have enough vitamin D. The good news is that—the good news is that this is easy to fix. Right. Which is taking more vitamin D. Now, a lot of vitamin D out there doesn't get absorbed because it's just made in bad ways. Not our vitamin D. We've spent 10 years and a hundred million dollars sourcing the best stuff. And then, anyway, that would probably inject some social proof. Buy AGZ. Yeah. That would be the— Trusted by a hundred thousand dads just like you. Yeah.

38:52

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Some social proof. [SPEAKER_02] So that's an educational story I would tell.

38:56

SPEAKER_02

That's very good. That's very good. But even doing that, you did go through a hero's journey. That entire time. Yeah. That was just telling a story. But that would be a really—that would probably be a pretty good ad. Now, everything I just said was fake. I don't know if that's true. [SPEAKER_03] I think something that I've talked about a lot when training creators is—

39:19

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] That was a Trojan horse, right? [SPEAKER_02] You bury the product so deeply into the story. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, because you want to follow that. [SPEAKER_02] And you build that desire for a long time. [SPEAKER_02] And then most people—that ad just throws the product at you immediately. [SPEAKER_02] It's this restorative drink for you.

39:24

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Daily, daily restorative drink. [SPEAKER_01] It's as if they haven't built any desire. [SPEAKER_01] There's no real reason to actually believe. [SPEAKER_01] Well, there's a copywriting rule as well, where you're trying to get people to say yes. [SPEAKER_01] Very, very early. [SPEAKER_01] Right. You bury the product so deep into the story.

39:41

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because you want to follow that. And you build that desire for a long time. And then most people—that ad just throws the product at you immediately. It's this restorative drink for you. Yeah. Daily, daily restorative drink. [SPEAKER_01] They haven't built any desire. [SPEAKER_01] There's no real reason to actually believe.

40:05

SPEAKER_01

Well, there's a copywriting rule as well where you're trying to get people to say yes.

40:06

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Very, very early.

40:07

SPEAKER_01

Right. So I say a specific line: “Don't you always notice that you wake up?” Is it frustrating why you—why suddenly, at the age of 35, you can't sleep for more than three hours straight in the night and you have to wake up to go eat? Head nod, right? You're, “Yes.” And then you'd say, “Well, did you know that's a recent phenomenon?”

40:26

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] It's not always been that way. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, piqued the interest. [SPEAKER_01] And then the reason it's that way is because you, again, make it all make sense.

40:36

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] And you also want to put all that at the beginning,

40:37

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] as early as possible in, in the copy. [SPEAKER_01] The other one that I want you to do is there's one from Caraway: “Designed with clean materials

40:40

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] like ceramic-coated glass, [SPEAKER_01] Caraway food storage helps you store more and stress less. [SPEAKER_01] Your storage can do better.” Another terrible. So they're a non-toxic cookware. [SPEAKER_01] Great. [SPEAKER_01] Okay.

40:52

SPEAKER_01

Again, I'm going to make up all the details. [SPEAKER_02] If I had to write this from scratch, I would use Claude and find—I would ask it.

40:54

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Get stats.

40:57

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

40:59

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Did you know that there's more E. coli in your, [SPEAKER_02] in your Tupperware container than there is in your toilet bowl? [SPEAKER_02] It's so good. [SPEAKER_02] You see, a lot of people don't realize this, but E. coli comes from rotten chicken, [SPEAKER_02] and rotten chicken sticks inside of—what's Tupperware usually made out of? [SPEAKER_02] I don't know. [SPEAKER_02] Plastic. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Plastic. [SPEAKER_02] And so the—and plus, when you microwave it, oh my God. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] It gets even deeper. [SPEAKER_01] It creates a toxic waste of E. coli. [SPEAKER_01] Toxic waste of crust.

41:17

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] So you think—so, or, or the headline could actually be, “Imagine, [SPEAKER_02] imagine storing your food in the toilet bowl.”

41:20

SPEAKER_02

That is such a good headline. Yeah. Imagine storing your food in the toilet bowl.

41:23

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Because that's exactly what you're doing.

41:25

SPEAKER_02

There's more E. coli in, in a one-year-old Tupperware container, the plastic one-year-old Tupperware container, than there is in your own toilet bowl. And then you explain the science. [SPEAKER_03] Luckily for you. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

41:33

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

41:33

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] And that, my friend, is why glass is better. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

41:35

SPEAKER_03

That's what I would do. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

41:42

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] That's so good. [SPEAKER_02] But that goes back to that idea of punching somebody in the face with that first sentence. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

41:44

SPEAKER_02

And I bet you I could find out the truth about— here would be another one. If I had a kid's clothing company, I would say,

41:49

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I would say, “Would you put your kid's milk in a plastic cup and microwave it until the cup started melting?”

41:53

SPEAKER_02

Of course not. But that's exactly what you're doing when you're buying them polyester pajamas and putting them in the dryer. Yeah. That's why you want to have all-natural, organic cotton. Do you think it's key to put—almost frame—something else that is extremely visual, as you just did? Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] So, for example— If I was a clear, obvious— [SPEAKER_01] No, [SPEAKER_01] if I was going to tell you movie popcorn has 150 grams of fat, that means nothing. [SPEAKER_01] But if I filled this cup up with 150 grams of fat or showed you a brick of fat and said, [SPEAKER_01] “You see this?” [SPEAKER_01] That's how much fat is in one large popcorn. [SPEAKER_01] You want that?

42:11

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] It's like the deconstructed Coke bottle. [SPEAKER_03] They'll be, “This much of your Coke is sugar,” and it'll be 40% of the entire bottle. [SPEAKER_03] Do you, do you think about objections when you're copywriting? Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Who, who does it the best? [SPEAKER_03] Have you ever seen 8 Mile? The Eminem movie? Yeah. Yeah. The best scene is when they're freestyle rapping, and he's about to get annihilated by these guys. And he's, “Yeah, I am white.”

42:29

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] My mom is trashy. [SPEAKER_02] I am white trash.

42:30

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] My mom did have sex with this guy.

42:32

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

42:33

SPEAKER_02

I got beat up by this guy.

42:34

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And then they're—

42:34

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] I do have a friend named Chet Ababa shooting himself with—

42:34

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And then the guys are— Yeah, I can't say anything. You just ruined my entire life.

42:41

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] So I do think that, [SPEAKER_03] when I, whenever we write copy, [SPEAKER_03] I do think of objections.

42:49

SPEAKER_03

So I'll often say,

42:50

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] “I know what you're thinking.” [SPEAKER_03] Who's this person? [SPEAKER_03] And why can I even trust them?

42:53

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] Or, “I know what you're thinking.”

42:54

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] I don't need this now. [SPEAKER_03] I always, I'll ask those questions in the writing. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] All the time. [SPEAKER_02] And then are you more direct when you're, [SPEAKER_02] you're tackling objections with— No, you can have it in FAQs.

43:09

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Okay. [SPEAKER_02] Because there was a, [SPEAKER_02] there was this video on, [SPEAKER_02] on TikTok shot back in the day.

43:12

SPEAKER_02

It was about these Lenovo headphones. [SPEAKER_03] Who's this person?

43:13

SPEAKER_03

And why can I even trust them?

43:14

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] Or I know what you're thinking. [SPEAKER_03] I don't need this now. [SPEAKER_03] I always ask those questions in the writing. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. All the time.

43:26

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] And then, are you more direct when you're tackling objections? [SPEAKER_01] No, you can have it in FAQs. [SPEAKER_02] Okay. [SPEAKER_02] Because there was this video on TikTok shot back in the day. [SPEAKER_02] It was about these Lenovo headphones. [SPEAKER_02] Lenovo. Okay.

43:33

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And so he said:

43:34

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] There's a rumor going around that Apple is stealing this new design for these headphones. [SPEAKER_03] And then he proceeds to go into— [SPEAKER_01] He hits a— The feeling that those headphones are so uncomfortable. And then he's: These are the most comfortable ones. I never take them off. [SPEAKER_01] And then the way I viewed the video, and why I think it converted so well, is because— Okay. You've got me. You've hooked me in. I'm intrigued by your new design, but it's Lenovo headphones.

43:51

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] They're $40. [SPEAKER_02] I think they're probably pretty shitty.

43:53

SPEAKER_02

And so he proceeds to say, “The battery life on these things is insane.” I haven't charged them for three weeks. And then he explains why. But why are they only $40? Exactly.

43:58

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And then he's:

44:01

SPEAKER_02

Not only that, but I accidentally wore these in the shower one time, and they're totally good.

44:04

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] He doesn't say they're waterproof.

44:05

SPEAKER_02

He says, “I wore them in the shower.” Right. And that personal anecdote is a way of handling the objection without necessarily saying, “I know what you're going to say.” You're saying, [SPEAKER_02] “These things are shitty.” “If I just get them wet at all, they're probably going to die.” And he's: [SPEAKER_01] “No,

44:19

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] I wore them in the shower.”

44:21

SPEAKER_02

I think that's a really good way to handle it.

44:21

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] What, do you have a Harley one? [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. What's that one?

44:26

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] Okay. [SPEAKER_03] The reason I'm bringing this one up is because when you look at old vintage Harley ads and/or how they were positioned, it was more so built around his art. Every Harley ad that they're running now is just about how much they could save by getting pre-qualified. So I'd want— [SPEAKER_03] What I almost want you to do— [SPEAKER_01] That doesn't mean it's a bad ad. [SPEAKER_01] It could be someone who's super high intent. But I think there's— [SPEAKER_01] There's a way of structuring it where you can put [SPEAKER_01] pricing into the sentence and almost make it still very desirable,

44:39

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] but it's

44:39

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] more built around the desire. [SPEAKER_01] And then [SPEAKER_01] it's almost a bonus that it's [SPEAKER_03] X amount of dollars a month. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] It's the bottom of the funnel. Yeah. Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] I would probably do something.

44:47

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I love facts and research. [SPEAKER_02] So I would probably do: People who have experiences are X more likely [SPEAKER_02] to be happy than people who just buy things. [SPEAKER_03] Thankfully, [SPEAKER_03] this is both.

44:53

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] Both. [SPEAKER_03] And you, [SPEAKER_03] therefore, save a little money. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

44:57

SPEAKER_01

Two for one.

44:58

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. That's a bar. I would probably go that route. Because that's how I— I've always just— I'm justified. There's my motorcycle right there. I always justify them by saying,

45:08

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] “I'm purchasing an experience, and experiences make you happier.”

45:08

SPEAKER_02

I feel like I'm a dancing monkey here. You gotta show me ads, and I gotta come up with something clever. [SPEAKER_01] I've come up with two clever ones.

45:11

[SPEAKER_01] I don't know how many more I have in me. [SPEAKER_02] Was that not a third? That was a third. That was a third. That was definitely a third. [SPEAKER_01] How do you think about infusing humor or personality into the ads? I don't think it works for every brand, [SPEAKER_03] but I think if it's part of your brand, humor is probably one of the easiest ones to use to sell. Would you use it in Hampton? Yeah. If you look at our About Us page,

45:30

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] we have humor. You read our About Us page.

45:31

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. It's supposed to be funny.

45:38

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I like doing humor. [SPEAKER_03] I actually think we did do more of it, [SPEAKER_02] but at The Hustle,

45:49

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] we had humor. [SPEAKER_03] We had a really famous welcome email that was quite popular.

45:50

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] I feel like y'all were very leaned into humor. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] And I wasn't the funny one. [SPEAKER_02] We hired really funny people. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] We had [SPEAKER_02] a lot of really funny people. [SPEAKER_02] One of the— [SPEAKER_02] It was a ton. [SPEAKER_02] We had ones who you don't even know. And we had headlines one time— [SPEAKER_02] SoFi. [SPEAKER_02] SoFi. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] The bank. [SPEAKER_02] They, [SPEAKER_02] the— [SPEAKER_03] I feel y'all were very leaned into humor. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] And I wasn't the funny one. [SPEAKER_02] We hired really funny people.

46:18

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. We had—we had a lot of really funny people.

46:21

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] One of the—it was a ton.

46:23

SPEAKER_02

We had ones who you don't even know.

46:24

SPEAKER_01

And we had headlines. One time: [SPEAKER_02] SoFi. [SPEAKER_02] SoFi. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] The bank. [SPEAKER_02] They—the storyline was the CEO touched a woman or did something. [SPEAKER_02] It was a bad sex thing. And the headline—and it wasn't bad enough where we couldn't make fun of it. I think he said something inappropriate. [SPEAKER_02] I don't think he touched. [SPEAKER_02] I think he said something. [SPEAKER_02] And we said: SoFi.

46:40

SPEAKER_02

More like so fucked. And we had—we had really good headlines that we would use. I think the New York Post does really well. [SPEAKER_03] They do. They—they are the best at it. [SPEAKER_03] The next day after anything happens, you just know the Post is going to fillet somebody. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] It's pretty good. So, I do think humor is quite good. For anybody that's trying to become a better copywriter, what would—what roadmap would you—copy work, without a doubt, for six months?

46:50

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Just find—just Google “best ads” or— [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I would start with ads. But then— [SPEAKER_02] “Most effective” or “top-selling American short stories.” [SPEAKER_02] And then— [SPEAKER_01] It could be—if you want to be funny, you'd find “best stand-up comedy jokes” or “best SNL bits” or “most famous TV scenes.”

46:54

Things like that. [SPEAKER_01] Whatever is critically acclaimed or popular for whatever reason in the genre that you want to do, then you spend literally three to six months. [SPEAKER_01] I call it copy hour. [SPEAKER_01] I would do it every hour for six months. [SPEAKER_01] Would you do that based on the skill sets? [SPEAKER_01] If you're—if you're looking at a comedian, it's, “Okay, delivery. I'm going to learn delivery here.” [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] You want it for— [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] For that, you'd want to learn timing. [SPEAKER_01] But yeah, just whichever thing I want to be at, I would find what's considered the handful of classics.

47:06

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] And then, even if you want to get good at video editing—

47:06

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] You— Then you go and you try to recreate a shot, or if you want to do songs, you recreate the song. Or, for example, if you want to get good at design, you find websites that you like, and you literally make them on Canva. Yeah.

47:12

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Have you ever had a swipe file of copywriting books? [SPEAKER_01] All of the— All these ones that we're looking at. Yeah. You've used that as a lead magnet before. Yeah. As a lead magnet. Yeah. Just something. Because I feel you could be, “These are my top 15 copywriting books.” [SPEAKER_03] No. [SPEAKER_03] I've never done that, but that's a really good idea. [SPEAKER_03] I should do that. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Because I've read a ton. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I was going to say, this is just—it's very— [SPEAKER_03] These are the most popular ones. [SPEAKER_03] These are the ones I talk about all the time, but there's a bunch.

47:37

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] These are—these are the pre-acquisition books. [SPEAKER_03] It's all copy post-acquisitions. [SPEAKER_03] Denim. [SPEAKER_01] Go up one more. [SPEAKER_01] It's their contemporary Japanese architecture. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And skateboarding magazines. Grab those Thrasher magazines. I did. I was actually looking at them. I steal so many. So, the reason I have all these magazines is I just steal ideas from them.

47:52

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And I work in the tech world. [SPEAKER_02] And so I know that not a lot of people are going to be reading Thrasher, or this is an old JFK Jr. magazine. [SPEAKER_02] That's the first edition. [SPEAKER_02] I got it.

47:57

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Oh, that's a— [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] That thing's probably appreciated in value.

47:58

SPEAKER_02

It's probably worth a thousand dollars. A million percent. Since Love Story. Joe, my partner, bought this for me two years ago. Because I love the Kennedys.

48:03

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

48:04

SPEAKER_02

And it's—the first edition of the— It's worth a thousand dollars now. He got it for 30 bucks, but I steal so many funny things from Thrasher. They were making fun of me yesterday because— We popped out of— We went to Aimé Leon Dore. [SPEAKER_01] We left there, and I was— A million percent since Love Story. Joe, my partner, bought this for me two years ago. Because I love the Kennedys. Yeah. It's the first edition of the—it's worth a thousand dollars now.

48:15

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] He got it for 30 bucks,

48:20

SPEAKER_02

but I steal so many funny things from Thrasher. They were making fun of me yesterday because we popped out of— we went to Aimé Leon Dore. [SPEAKER_01] We left there, and I was, [SPEAKER_01] “I need to instantly go to the magazine shop.” [SPEAKER_01] And I— [SPEAKER_01] I bought six, [SPEAKER_03] seven different magazines. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] I steal so much stuff. You guys don't understand how good the copy, how good the imagery is in all of these. This one's Popeye. [SPEAKER_03] This is the reason why this is cool. It's backwards. And this magazine is all in Japanese, by the way. I can't even read any of this stuff. The Japanese one I bought yesterday is all.

48:47

SPEAKER_02

But I— I have a subscription. I've had— I've been a subscriber to these for years. Isn't there another— there's a new magazine company [SPEAKER_01] trying to do it? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tech thing. Yeah. They were trying to— I don't want to read business anymore. I just like to read other stuff. I gotta find places to steal from. A lot of people are saying the best way to unlock your ability to write good, original ideas is to read more fiction. I—

49:08

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I read a lot of fiction. [SPEAKER_02] Which is: [SPEAKER_02] read this headline out of the Alligate. [SPEAKER_02] First page I turned to: [SPEAKER_02] “He looked like Dale Earnhardt and smelled like BO by a bonfire.”

49:14

SPEAKER_02

You immediately know. I steal so much stuff from these things. Yeah. Yeah.

49:19

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Thrasher has really good writing. [SPEAKER_02] How long have they been in publication?

49:25

SPEAKER_02

For 30 years, probably. The one thing you don't know about Sam is he's a great copywriter. He'll do a kickflip right over this. This boy shreds the gnar at the age of 36. Have you seen this guy, Jimmy Sundays? No. You gotta— is he a 36-year-old who can shred? No, no, certainly not. [SPEAKER_01] He's a 23-year-old surfer [SPEAKER_01] bro who walks up to random girls, and he'll be, [SPEAKER_01] “What's up? [SPEAKER_01] Fine.

49:45

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Shit.” [SPEAKER_02] And then he'll be, [SPEAKER_02] “If I land this kickflip, [SPEAKER_02] you gotta give me your number.” [SPEAKER_02] And I don't have those skills. He just hits it on route immediately. I think you would geek out if you looked up his page.

49:52

Well, Sam, I appreciate you making time for us. I know you— you have a crazy podcast schedule this week. I had one this morning with HubSpot, and they— they pay me every month to host MFM. And sometimes when they call, I gotta say— you do have to say, “Yes, yes, sir.” Yeah. I think what got— got it over the line was I posted something on my story. He was, [SPEAKER_03] “Hey, [SPEAKER_03] what content do you want to see from me?” [SPEAKER_03] And somebody later said, “You and Sam pod.” [SPEAKER_03] And I was— [SPEAKER_03] he had just texted me 15. [SPEAKER_03] For the record, [SPEAKER_03] Alex worked at The Hustle. [SPEAKER_02] I think he started as an intern.

50:20

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I don't remember exactly. [SPEAKER_02] No, [SPEAKER_02] don't try me. [SPEAKER_02] That's not— [SPEAKER_02] what? [SPEAKER_02] You were 24. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I came out on social. [SPEAKER_02] Where did you work before? [SPEAKER_02] I had my own agency. [SPEAKER_02] And [SPEAKER_02] he was a kid, and then he [SPEAKER_02] did the gym. [SPEAKER_02] What was it called? [SPEAKER_02] Collective Collective. [SPEAKER_02] And [SPEAKER_02] he started filming some stuff, and I'm,

50:34

SPEAKER_02

“You did that.

50:34

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] That's really good.

50:36

SPEAKER_02

I didn't know you could do that.” [SPEAKER_01] And then he started doing his own social. [SPEAKER_01] And I was, [SPEAKER_01] “You did that. [SPEAKER_01] It was really good.” [SPEAKER_01] So yeah, [SPEAKER_01] you've built some cool stuff. [SPEAKER_01] Congratulations. [SPEAKER_01] Thank you. [SPEAKER_01] Thank you.

50:45

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Well,

50:47

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] I appreciate you jumping on, making time,

50:47

SPEAKER_01

and giving all the game that you typically do.

50:48

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] It's not that much, [SPEAKER_01] but hopefully someone will enjoy it. [SPEAKER_01] I'm sure people find that super valuable. [SPEAKER_01] Where can they support you? They can't. Okay. We have some people who are qualified for Hampton. Well, you have a podcast that's on the come-up. We'll put you on. Please do. I would like to get the word out.

51:02

SPEAKER_01

That you typically do, it's not that much, but hopefully someone will enjoy it. Some people find that super valuable.

51:08

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] Where, [SPEAKER_01] where can they support you? They can't. Okay. We have some people that are qualified for Hampton. Well, you have a podcast that's on the come up. We'll put you on. Please do. I would like to get the word out. [SPEAKER_03] We have this new thing called MFM. We, [SPEAKER_01] oh yeah,

51:21

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] yeah, [SPEAKER_02] I started doing, [SPEAKER_02] I started doing Instagram in December. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] And I've been going hard. [SPEAKER_02] It's been really embarrassing to be a 36-year-old guy talking to a camera, [SPEAKER_02] but find me there. [SPEAKER_02] Are you enjoying it? [SPEAKER_01] Some days I do like it.

51:30

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] I think I have 102,000 followers,

51:31

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] so I've grown 50,000 since December.

51:32

SPEAKER_02

I think I started with 50. I don't remember how many I started with, but it's pretty fun. Yeah. The young guys who've grown up with it, they are just, they're different. It's competing against,

51:40

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] it's competing.

51:43

SPEAKER_02

It's a Jamaican hundred-meter runner. They're just born different. [SPEAKER_03] The young guys who are good at it, [SPEAKER_03] they just, [SPEAKER_03] it's very ingrained in them.

51:48

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Oh my God. [SPEAKER_03] It's in their DNA. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

51:50

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_03] It's been so uncomfortable. [SPEAKER_03] I have to talk to a camera. [SPEAKER_03] They like vlogging too, right? They, they grew up making those videos on Snapchat, on everything, on their iPhone. Every single time I try to hit this, the walk and talk, I can't do it.

51:58

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] What's your highest number of views on a video? [SPEAKER_02] Two-point-something mil. [SPEAKER_02] I just got 4 million the other day. [SPEAKER_02] What about your dad's onion?

52:01

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] My dad's onions. [SPEAKER_01] 4 million is big time. [SPEAKER_01] I got 4 million. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

52:05

SPEAKER_02

That was pretty huge. And I knew it was going to take off right when I published it.

52:07

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] How many followers did that drive? [SPEAKER_02] Probably 20,000?

52:10

SPEAKER_02

Maybe 15 or 12.

52:11

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] Oh, [SPEAKER_02] okay. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] It was back in the day, [SPEAKER_01] maybe 30, [SPEAKER_01] but yeah,

52:16

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] it was, [SPEAKER_03] it drove a lot. [SPEAKER_03] Let's see.

52:18

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Let's check out the analytics on it. [SPEAKER_03] You gotta get on TikTok,

52:20

SPEAKER_02

bro.

52:22

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I hate China.

52:22

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] So look,

52:25

SPEAKER_01

4 million. [SPEAKER_02] The Chinese government. [SPEAKER_03] I hate the Chinese government. [SPEAKER_03] CCP, [SPEAKER_03] the CCP. [SPEAKER_03] Keep that in there. [SPEAKER_03] Keep that in there. [SPEAKER_03] The Chinese people are cool with me. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] China, [SPEAKER_02] I don't like.

52:38

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] So 4 million followers, or how many?

52:38

SPEAKER_01

4 million views. [SPEAKER_02] How many followers did I get from it?

52:39

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] Roughly 10,000. [SPEAKER_02] Those are people that straight clicked follow on the reel. [SPEAKER_01] That's just the count for the people that. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

52:46

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] So it's, [SPEAKER_01] it's a little different. [SPEAKER_01] It was just a story about my dad, [SPEAKER_01] who's an onion salesman. [SPEAKER_01] And he just sells $10 million a year with the onions, with the. [SPEAKER_01] You wrote it. [SPEAKER_01] You wrote the, [SPEAKER_01] the copy behind the video and everything. [SPEAKER_01] Just. Oh, [SPEAKER_01] there was no writing,

53:02

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] bro. I was at my dad's house or my dad's office. It's a very raw video. I was at my dad's office. My dad's an onion salesman.

53:11

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] So my father started a produce stand on the side of the road, [SPEAKER_02] a fruit stand. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] And it became a brokerage,

53:13

SPEAKER_02

which means he calls a farmer and he buys $1 million worth of onions. And then he sells it to Walmart for. A little bit more money. And then it gets a trucker. 1.002 or, yeah, nothing. [SPEAKER_03] He sells $15 million a year with onions, [SPEAKER_03] but it's an, [SPEAKER_03] arbitrage. [SPEAKER_03] It's a very tiny. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] Which the comments were, [SPEAKER_03] oh, your dad's rich. I'm, no, the margins are small. Yeah. But anyway, I was at his office, and it's just him. And this woman who works for him, he met at a bar. She was the bartender at his favorite bar. And I go, I go,

53:42

SPEAKER_02

here's how my dad sells $10 million a year with onions. And it's just, he's just sitting there at his desk, and he's got two phones. No. The margins are small. Yeah. But anyway, I was at his office, and it's just him.

53:51

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] And this woman who works for him, [SPEAKER_02] he met at a bar. [SPEAKER_02] She was the bartender at his favorite bar. [SPEAKER_02] And [SPEAKER_02] I go, [SPEAKER_02] I go, [SPEAKER_02] "Here's how my dad sells 10 million dollars a year with onions."

54:00

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And it's just, [SPEAKER_02] he's just sitting there at his desk, and he's got two phones. [SPEAKER_02] And then he's got a computer that is strictly used for watching YouTube videos. [SPEAKER_02] And then he has a calculator here, and he just makes calls. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] "Can I buy this thing?"

54:06

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] "All right, [SPEAKER_02] cool." [SPEAKER_02] Adds it up. [SPEAKER_02] "Hey, [SPEAKER_02] do you want to buy these things?" [SPEAKER_02] "Cool." [SPEAKER_02] And then his coworker, who is in the other office,

54:17

SPEAKER_02

he let her have a big Pack 'n Play in her office so she could bring her kid to the office. And we're, we're, [SPEAKER_03] "Here's his accounting department." [SPEAKER_03] And that's the calculator. [SPEAKER_03] "Here's the call center." [SPEAKER_03] It's his two phones. [SPEAKER_03] And then, [SPEAKER_03] "Here's the daycare," with just the Pack 'n Play.

54:33

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

54:33

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] And [SPEAKER_01] it went viral. [SPEAKER_01] Skip rate: only 20%, [SPEAKER_01] which is—so, yeah, [SPEAKER_01] 80% of people watch the— [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. [SPEAKER_03] How much does that mean? And what does that mean? [SPEAKER_03] It's an 80% three-second stop rate. [SPEAKER_03] So 80% of people saw your hook and said, [SPEAKER_03] "I'm in." At the three-second mark, [SPEAKER_03] 85% of people continued watching, which is insane. It's actually an insane number. Yeah. You don't drop below 50% until 33 seconds in. I think the video is only 45 seconds long, which is wild. Yeah. It's 50, 50. So 50% of those 4 million people watch the whole thing.

54:56

SPEAKER_02

I always know if my— if I'm looking at my skip rate, if it's above 50% at the three, three-second mark, I'm, "Okay, this is going to be 50% after five." Yeah.

55:09

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] And [SPEAKER_02] looking at these numbers, [SPEAKER_02] it's—what's the average watch time? [SPEAKER_02] 35 seconds. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] That's fucking crazy. [SPEAKER_02] And then what I did was I made an ad out of that video. [SPEAKER_02] So this is one, [SPEAKER_02] one of our better-performing.

55:35

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] It's by crushing. [SPEAKER_02] You could also just whitelist that one from your account. [SPEAKER_02] Well,

55:38

SPEAKER_02

what I did was—watch this. "We're at my father's business. This is— that's him. He sells over $10 million of onions a year. [SPEAKER_02] You have to see how he does it." This video got 3 million views. [SPEAKER_01] "And if you're a business owner,

55:44

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] you're going to understand why.

55:45

[SPEAKER_01] Watch this." [SPEAKER_01] My post went viral in the entrepreneur community because it was frame-breaking. [SPEAKER_01] People think that a $10 million- or $50 million-a-year business should look a certain way. [SPEAKER_01] And they see this, and they are encouraged because there are really hundreds of different ways that you can get to where you want to go and build a huge company. [SPEAKER_01] And this is one of the reasons why thousands of founders get a lot of value in Hampton: because they're able to see these frame-breaking conversations and meet these frame-breaking people every single day. [SPEAKER_01] Those are some quick CTAs too. [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

55:50

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_03] Yeah. And that's one of our best ads. [SPEAKER_02] Pretty funny,

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