Jake Paul: Traditional VC is Toast & Attention is More Valuable than Cash

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It goes back to one of our founding principles, which is attention is more valuable than capital.

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Today we have such a different one for you. Jake Paul, one of the most recognizable people on the planet, is in the studio, baby. He's here with his partner, Jeffrey Wu. What you don't know about Jake, he's probably one of the best investors of the last few years with his fund, Antifund. They've backed the likes of Ramp, Cognition, Chronosphere, and many others.

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Can VCs become influencers faster than native influencers like Jake and Logan can become VCs?

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This is a show unlike any that Jake has done before, ranging from politics to parenting to the next generation of great investments.

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You don't want a career politician running a business. The first startup in America was America. It's a business. I take home nearly 100%. Well, that's pretty great, isn't it?

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This was a fascinating discussion, revealing a side to Jake that I don't think many people have seen before.

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YouTube, I was done with it. I didn't like it anymore. Do you think Trump's doing a good job? Yes, I do. I think...

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Ready to go?

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Boys, it is so good to have you in the studio. I'm so excited that we got to do this in person. So thank you for joining me. 100%, man. Thank you for having us. Now, I want to start on the fund. This is a VC show first and foremost. But I actually spoke to John at Wanda, who is a portfolio company of yours. And he said that you've actually got to start with just mapping out the Jake Paul business empire ecosystem to fully understand what it's like. Can you just give us an overview? And whoever's best for this, an overview of what the Jake Paul business empire looks like today?

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Yeah. So it goes anywhere from being a peanut farmer to fighting Anthony Joshua to venture and working with OpenAI and advising them. But, yeah, I have a ranch where I literally sell peanuts. But, yeah, it's entertainment mixed, obviously, with the entrepreneurial vibes. But it's, you know, Better, which is sports gaming. I spoke to the founder beforehand. Okay, Joey. Yeah. He's great. Yeah, I spoke to Joey. [SPEAKER_04] Wow, you really talked to everyone.

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Dude, I did. I was listening, Jake obviously, you know, invested in you guys. He's like, no, he didn't. He co-founded it with me.

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Yeah.

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And so we had a lovely chat. Oh, dude, I do my work.

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Yeah, you're locked in.

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That's why I like this show. I mean, maybe the way, because it's easier for me to brag about Jake. But I think the highest order bit is that I think Jake represents the next generation of Americans and what they want to be. And I think we have a unique opportunity to not just be Jake being an inspirational model, but also be a capital force and an attention force to drive a future and a culture that we want to see. So I think if you stem from a demographic perspective, right? The number one job that young people want to have is to be an influencer.

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Yeah.

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I think one of Jake's personal missions is how to inspire the next generation of young men.

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Jake, are you proud when you hear that number one job aspiration is to be an influencer?

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Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. I've actually known it's been that way since I was 18. They did some company study when buying and YouTube was popping. And I've known that statistic for the longest time.

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But do you think that's healthy? Because I don't think you wanted to be an influencer.

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No, exactly. And that's what I tell people. They're like, well, how do I be like you? I said, don't be an influencer. Be yourself. And also, are you entertaining? You have to really ask yourself that question. And can you actually do this? And are you smart? Are you creative? Do you have the work ethic? You know how much work you just put in just for this one podcast. And people don't really see the behind the scenes things that go into these videos. And it's become second nature to me. And I have a team and all that stuff. But it's still a full time job.

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What do people not see work wise that you wish they saw most?

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I don't care for them to see. But they don't see that there's so much genius in every 0.1 second of content that I make. Every little millisecond is calculated and dialed and thought through. I think that stems from being a creator from Vine where you had 6.9 seconds. People thought it was 6, but it's actually 6.9. And every second and millisecond had to be measured out and calculated and changed and edited around. And so I think that meticulous nature of what I do and create has obviously helped me since the beginning.

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And it's almost constant. It's almost politics with my team where we're arguing about every little second or song of the video or things that actually matter. Do you lose the art in the science?

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I don't think so. I think the art happens when we're filming. The science is in post and in edit. And so it goes back to the question of people want to be influencers, but are you naturally good at it? And are you naturally able to talk on camera and tell the story? At the end of the day, I'm a storyteller in a sense. And so that's the art.

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And it's interesting. So are the best founders and so are the best fundraisers. What makes a great story?

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Conflict and struggle and love would be the top three answers for that. And I purposely invoke emotions in people as an entertainer. I want people to feel fear or joy or hate or something. I don't care what they feel, but I know in certain videos what I'm going to make them feel. Like I posted an edit where I act like I was depressed and couldn't find meaning in my life. At the end of the day, I'm a storyteller in a sense. And so that's the art. [SPEAKER_04] And it's interesting. So are the best founders and so are the best fundraisers. What makes a great story?

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Conflict and struggle and love would be the top three answers for that. And I purposely invoke emotions in people as an entertainer. I want people to feel fear or joy or hate or something. I don't care what they feel, but I know in certain videos what I'm going to make them feel. I posted an edit where I act like I was depressed and couldn't find meaning in my life. And so it went super viral because people were saying, yo, are you okay? People were texting me, yo, are you okay? I saw your video. And I'm just saying, no, I'm just an entertainer. I'm just making people think I'm depressed.

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[SPEAKER_02] And I think the boldness of character too, right? I think Jake is very authentic and passionate about what he believes in. So I would add that, I think. [SPEAKER_04] Does that ever make your life harder on the institutional side? Is it difficult for you where you have to project confidence to institutions? And with respect, Jake is doing content that might seem a bit down or distracted or whatever that might be.

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Yeah, I think to me it's clearly polarizing, but it's very obvious, right? It's a double-edged sword, right? Jake has such a big persona and character that one can just be dismissive on first glance. But I'm okay with that because at the end of the day, we're in the money-making business and our track record makes money. So if it's like, hey, LPs don't understand the marketing and the attention gathering, it's like, okay, we'll make ourselves and other people more money that are a little bit smarter than you guys. So I think it's like you either lean into the brashness or the aggressiveness or you try to hide it. And I think every great story, every great founder, every great business is like you lean into strength, right? You want to be the best in the world. And I think we have a chance to be the best in the world on our exact style of investing and company formation.

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[SPEAKER_04] Is all publicity good publicity? It's the age-old saying, and I'm never sure. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, it's a very interesting question. There is besides a couple of things, you know.

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Don't mention the island. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, no, that's what I was going to say. It's like, yo, I was thinking, is Epstein's publicity good? No, that's not all good. Not all of it's good, no.

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[SPEAKER_01] It's a bad saying. Do you regret saying that you were uncontrollable? [SPEAKER_01] No, no, not at all. [SPEAKER_04] You don't?

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[SPEAKER_01] No, because I'm not, because I've never done anything that is actually bad. It's funny. Actually bad. I've been a dumb, arrogant kid. I filmed videos around fire. Okay, cool. If everyone's life was on camera from the time they were 14 years old, and we put a camera on you 24/7 through your college years, what were you doing at that frat party? That's probably much worse than me lighting a pool on fire in Los Angeles. So that's the thing. I'm uncancellable because no one will ever find or see anything about me that is actually bad. And it's all just fake hate.

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[SPEAKER_04] We were talking about the business empire at the start. If we filter that down into being the best investor you can be, the immediate thought I had was, why does venture make sense? If we're candid, reports around the latest fight is you make 70 to 100 million dollars, OpenAI says. Why does it make sense to do a 30 million dollar fund?

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[SPEAKER_01] Yeah, I think if the 30 mil fund was the end goal, it would be no, but we want to run 10, 20 billion dollars at some point and look up to people like Josh Kushner at Thrive who started with, I think, four, five million dollars. So, yeah, you have to start somewhere. And obviously I've made a ton of money from the past fights and as my career went. But my first fight against Deji, a local here in London, I think we made about a million dollars. So you have to start somewhere to be able to make it big.

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[SPEAKER_04] When you think about the pillars of venture, like how it's done, there's finding, there's picking, there's winning and there's helping. Now, I may be being assumptive here and rude, but I would assume that Jake is the master of winning and helping on distribution. And then you are the finder and the picker. Is that correct?

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I mean, I think it's really a true partnership of one. And so I think in terms of finding, I think Jake has—I think people underestimate Jake's reps and what he sees, right? Even just describing the nuances of 6.9 seconds on a product feature, right? In some sense, he was an early adopter in all the social platforms as a creator. So I think that same skill set in terms of knowing what is coming around the corner, understanding consumer sentiment is essentially the same instinct as us as VCs being like, hey, you know, this guy's a winner or this girl's a winner and their product and their vision, their roadmap makes a lot of sense. So I think on the picking side, I don't think we should underestimate Jake's taste there. And I would argue that with AI making traditional smart people stuff like coding and financial analysis as just metered intelligence, I would argue that having taste, having that cultural vibe. And I think that's one of your big edges as an investor. I think you're just cooler and more with it and vibe with the next generation of founders much better than a boomer VC. And I think you deserve the success on the platform and your funds. I think that's the challenge or the gauntlet that we're excited to fight with. It's like, I just saw that Bill Gurley was tweeting that paid marketing is the worst form of marketing.

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And I would argue that with AI making traditional smart people stuff like coding and financial analysis as just metered intelligence, I would argue that having taste, having that cultural vibe.

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[SPEAKER_02] And I think that's one of your big edges as an investor. [SPEAKER_02] I think you're just cooler and more with it and vibe with the next generation of founders much better than a boomer VC.

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[SPEAKER_02] And I think you deserve the success on the platform and your funds. [SPEAKER_02] I think that's the challenge or the gauntlet that we're excited to fight with.

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[SPEAKER_02] It's I just saw that Bill Gurley was tweeting that paid marketing is the worst form of marketing.

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[SPEAKER_02] And I'm just thinking, hey, Uber—he's most well known for kicking out Travis from Uber. [SPEAKER_02] And Uber burnt tens of billions of dollars on straight up marketing and just got profitability showing a quarter of net income positive 14, 15 years in.

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[SPEAKER_02] So my sense is that the software and the classic smart people stuff gets commoditized and the attention, the taste, the culture side gets more and more important.

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[SPEAKER_02] So I think the world goes into our favor versus away. [SPEAKER_04] Keith Raboy from Coesla and previously Founders Fund said that it's really important to know what we sell as investors, what our product is. [SPEAKER_04] And I quite like that framing. [SPEAKER_04] When you think of the product that you sell founders, do you sell founders distribution? [SPEAKER_04] And how do you think about keeping the brand and the profile pure and not being better partnership and Sips Morgs and all the other companies, Oats Overnight, I did my work, that you partner with? You know, I think each is to each their own.

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And it's not we're not plugging saying yo, we are going to give you distribution in companies where we don't think we're going to do that. We can provide super upfront. [SPEAKER_04] Hey, we're not going to be distributing you on our platforms, but we'd love to partner with you. Yeah. And I think there's tons of other things to provide. Just in terms of knowing culture and marketing and information in general. And hey, you should do this. You should link with this person. This would be a good access point. There's a religion app that we're investors in. It's OK, do you want to link with Trump's pastor? I have his phone number, things like that.

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That is the most random network.

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But it's Trump's pastor. Yeah, sure. [SPEAKER_01] Yo, we can provide value in tons of different ways. [SPEAKER_01] And I think each company is a different conversation. [SPEAKER_02] What do the quote unquote best VCs even do? [SPEAKER_02] A lot of it's those introductions to revenue sources.

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[SPEAKER_02] We are a phone call away from literally any executive, any billionaire in the world. [SPEAKER_02] It's would you rather have a Jake Paul introduction or some random boomer suited VC make that intro? [SPEAKER_02] The response rate and the integration rate is super high. [SPEAKER_02] We can compete with the guys who've been doing this for 30, 40 years because one, the founders of those funds have been dead or gone. [SPEAKER_02] It's just other guys who got hired into doing this. [SPEAKER_02] And I think we have a fresh take on saying, hey, let's compete. [SPEAKER_04] I'd have a sniper shot late stage strategy if I was you.

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[SPEAKER_04] And what I mean by that is just have 10 of the best companies that we all agree at late stage and just aggressively go after them. [SPEAKER_04] I know you're invested in Ramp for one of them.

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I think you're in Andruil. But leverage the shit out of the personal brands and put 10, 20, 30 million dollars to work. [SPEAKER_02] I think that's actually the correct way to think about it. [SPEAKER_02] I think late stage, I think we have unfair access advantage. [SPEAKER_02] And I think our actual value add is actually very valuable too. [SPEAKER_02] Because at that growth stage, you're looking at IPOs.

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Yeah. You're looking at mass media branding. And I think if you can look at track record, you can spend millions of dollars on marketing VP or some CMO or some agency. Literally, Jake has driven probably billions of dollars of enterprise value and impressions across all his in terms of new media. And in some sense, I see what Mark and Ben are doing with their podcast media company is essentially one thought I had was that can VCs become influencers faster than native influencers like Jake and Logan can become VCs. Right. That's the battle, benchmark acquired Jack Altman's podcast, you know, A16Z, great media platform.

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[SPEAKER_01] That again goes back to one of our founding principles, which is attention is more valuable than capital. [SPEAKER_04] Okay. [SPEAKER_04] So when we think about that, we have early and then we have late stage. [SPEAKER_04] Right. [SPEAKER_04] Great. [SPEAKER_04] Got it. [SPEAKER_04] And then we have incubations as well, because you do better as well. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] Okay. [SPEAKER_04] So we want to start companies as part of it. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Not too many, obviously takes a ton of work, but incubated better and W and then my brother's working on something now. [SPEAKER_01] And obviously he built prime as well.

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[SPEAKER_01] So that's a part of the strategy coming in with ownership, but also seeing a gap in the market with better, it was all these sports gaming companies paying hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars in marketing and seeing that their ads were terrible. [SPEAKER_01] Their app was clunky. [SPEAKER_01] It didn't make sense. [SPEAKER_01] And I was thinking, yo, I could build a better app and promote it better and have better content. [SPEAKER_01] And that's how we created better. [SPEAKER_04] What deal are you not in that you would most like to be in? A couple that I want to do.

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[SPEAKER_02] I think we want to do a little bit more in Europe. [SPEAKER_02] So I think Helsing is cool. [SPEAKER_02] I think with geopolitics, I think there needs to be a European neoprime for defense. I agree. [SPEAKER_02] We're chatting with Maddie over at Eleven Labs. [SPEAKER_01] It didn't make sense. [SPEAKER_01] And I was like, yo, I could build a better app and promote it better and have better content.

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And that's how we created better. So better, better, better, better. What deal are you not in that you would most like to be in? [SPEAKER_02] A couple that I want to do.

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[SPEAKER_02] I think we want to do a little bit more in Europe. [SPEAKER_02] So I think Helsing is cool.

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[SPEAKER_02] I think with geopolitics, there needs to be a European neoprime for defense. [SPEAKER_04] I agree.

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[SPEAKER_02] We're chatting with Maddie over at Eleven Labs. [SPEAKER_02] I think they're doing great stuff. [SPEAKER_04] Maddie's amazing. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] But going to your point, with the power law of the winners being super big, I think it just makes sense to try to pick the number ones and maybe the number twos in every single category. How much time can you realistically spend on Venture? I spend a lot of time on it. I think people don't realize how involved I am and we're constantly on a day-to-day basis talking, catching up, texting in a constant flow, weekly calls, et cetera.

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So very involved and flying to SF multiple times a year, meeting on the ground floor with people, advising the companies that we're a part of, meeting with different companies, et cetera.

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[SPEAKER_01] So very passionate about it. [SPEAKER_01] And it's because I like it.

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I would say in some of the other things that I do, I don't spend as much time in the weeds, but this is something I've always loved since I was 17, 18 years old and seeing in SF the Ubers and the Twitters of the world and Postmates and getting to see these companies when I was that young made an impression on me. And I've always loved it since then.

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[SPEAKER_04] One thing I find hard is when we sell brand and we sell media, which is in some ways what we sell as our differentiator. [SPEAKER_04] One challenging element is I feel relevance is this constant fight. [SPEAKER_04] You constantly are on a treadmill and you say about Jack Altman's going to be, yeah, and Jack's got a podcast and Sequoia. [SPEAKER_04] I mean, every fan has a podcast and then you have net new people. [SPEAKER_04] I sometimes feel like Madonna and there's Dua Lipa at the party. [SPEAKER_04] Okay. [SPEAKER_04] I bet you kindly said I look 36. [SPEAKER_04] Thanks.

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[SPEAKER_04] As a proud 28 year old, I sit here and go, that treadmill for relevance is hard. [SPEAKER_04] Do you find that treadmill for relevance hard?

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[SPEAKER_01] I don't because I've broken through escape velocity and just me being me now keeps me there. [SPEAKER_01] And I have a counterpart brother. [SPEAKER_01] We're the testosterone Kardashians, right? [SPEAKER_01] So if I'm not doing something in the media, he's literally at the flag football NFL beefing with Tom Brady, the most talked about thing in sports for the whole week. [SPEAKER_01] Right. [SPEAKER_01] So we go back and forth and we've built this ecosystem and we're just differentiated in the right markets in sports and content and YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. [SPEAKER_01] And we've been at the forefront of it since foundation.

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[SPEAKER_01] So I'm in a different league, but I think for other creators and influencers, it's a dying market for sure. [SPEAKER_01] And it's very hard for people to stay in the know. [SPEAKER_04] We are seeing more and more creators and influencers move into investing. [SPEAKER_04] What would you say to them knowing what you know now? [SPEAKER_01] It's a very tough game. [SPEAKER_01] And if you actually aren't good at it or know how to do it, then maybe don't just try to do it. [SPEAKER_01] Cause it's almost second nature to me because I have vision and can see where things are heading. [SPEAKER_01] I'm ahead of culture and these things since I was a kid.

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[SPEAKER_01] And so we can see where things are going. [SPEAKER_01] And I think it is an actual talent and skillset to be in the right room. [SPEAKER_01] So know who to talk to, know where to spend time, and know how to get what you want. [SPEAKER_01] And so I would say a lot of people can't do that. [SPEAKER_04] What do you see now that other people don't see about culture, about taste? [SPEAKER_01] That's asking a karate master to show you all of his moves. [SPEAKER_01] Welcome to the show.

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It's almost instinctual around the founder or the market? Both. And culture and content.

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[SPEAKER_01] I don't know. [SPEAKER_01] It's a feeling, right? [SPEAKER_01] How do I know what video to make? [SPEAKER_01] Right? [SPEAKER_01] It's become second nature. [SPEAKER_01] I'll give you an example though. What's your hit rate on videos? [SPEAKER_01] Pretty good. [SPEAKER_01] I think me and my number one content guy, before we post the video, we'll predict how many views it's going to get and pretty much accurate, 85% of the time.

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Really? Yeah. Wow. Within we'll say this is going to get 8.5 million or this is going to get 30. This one's going to get 40. So I don't know. It's second nature in a sense. An example is boxing and where I saw to become the greatest celebrity influencer boxer to the point where I wanted to become world champion because I knew that boxing was going to have a revival in part because of me. And I saw the attention, the views, how much people liked it, the drama and the money that was in it. And I made the point to become the best one in it.

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And then I excelled out of the group of just being influencer boxer and went into actually, this kid can become world champion because I saw where everything was going and that it was going to have a revival and be on the forefront of things like Netflix. An example is boxing and where I saw to become the greatest celebrity influencer boxer to the point where I wanted to become world champion because I knew that boxing was going to have a revival in part because of me. And I saw the attention, the views, how much people liked it. The drama and the money that was in it.

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[SPEAKER_01] And I made the point to become the best one in it. [SPEAKER_01] And then I excelled out of the group of just being influencer boxer and went into actually, this kid can become world champion because I saw where everything was going and that it was going to have a revival and be on the forefront of things like Netflix and being able to make hundreds of millions of dollars from it before everyone else. [SPEAKER_01] And there's a reason why all the other influencers fell behind. [SPEAKER_04] I always get in trouble for saying what's on my mind.

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Do you ever do or say shit and then go, Oh shit, I'm Matt Anthony Joshua.

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[SPEAKER_04] He's a big fucking guy. [SPEAKER_04] I do my pushups.

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Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04] He's a big guy. [SPEAKER_04] When do you ever say things and then you're like, Oh dear, went too far there? [SPEAKER_04] No, I don't think so. [SPEAKER_04] You don't? [SPEAKER_04] Like in public?

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When you stand next to him, you're not actually like, Oh fuck, I shouldn't have done this one. Oh no. I think like he's just like, nah, it was fine. No, even someone literally came up to me this morning in the spa area at the hotel and was like, mate, that was amazing. You're, it was crazy that you did that, but you left with your stock higher. That's what he said. You left with your stock higher. Yeah. Which is for me, it was a win, win, win across the board fighting him. And I knew that going into it. And I knew that I could actually hang in there with him and the world would be shocked by my heart and skillset.

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And even if he was to knock me out or knock me down, I would just keep on getting back up. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. And so I think that the fight actually humanized me a bit and people got to see a different side of me.

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It's funny. Rahul said he's really dialed in that it doesn't matter if I win or lose attention makes me money. Boxing business. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. You stand by that? [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] A hundred percent. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01] And you know, it's all math, right? [SPEAKER_01] Is it better to, I was more nervous to fight Gervonta Davis because if you lose to a tiny person, people would be like, oh, you suck. [SPEAKER_01] So it's actually better to lose to a giant. When we think about culture and you mentioned AI there in terms of the tooling, people ascribe that sport is the most exciting asset class because it is defensible to AI.

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[SPEAKER_04] You're not going to see robots fighting in the same way that you'd expect to see humans fighting. [SPEAKER_04] Do you agree with that in terms of the rising stock price of sport in a world of AI? Yeah. Yeah. We've been on that side of the thinking, but I think things are going to get weird. So I can't say for sure. That's an open question for me still. [SPEAKER_04] What do you mean things are going to get weird? You know, if I can put into cognition or any of these things and develop my own game, that's personally tailored for me with a couple of clicks of a button.

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Why would I watch the NBA when this game I made for myself has all my favorite things in it and friends and storytelling. And I made my own world of Warcraft or Minecraft in a day. It will that suck away the entertainment or I made my own whole Netflix movie the exact way I wanted it with certain shit in it. Will that personalization take away from other forms of entertainment, which is sport? That's where I mean things might get weird. [SPEAKER_04] Are you excited for the future?

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[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02] I think the answer has to be yes. [SPEAKER_04] I love that. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] I don't even know. [SPEAKER_04] In all honesty, I'm quite scared. [SPEAKER_04] I'm quite scared because I think the majority of society will become unemployed. [SPEAKER_04] Most of actually low level work, I think, will be replaced. [SPEAKER_04] I think a lot of white collar work will be replaced. [SPEAKER_04] I think we're facing this massive depressed society of young people looking for meaning. [SPEAKER_04] We've got terrible eating disorders that are worse than ever. [SPEAKER_04] I'm nervous.

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And then on top of that, we have world conflict like never before.

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Yeah. I always said this a hundred years ago, you know, when they were coming up with the atom bomb and the nuke and people were like, oh, we're so scared. [SPEAKER_03] Oh, what's going to happen? There's always fear in the development of human society and new technologies. And I'm sure people were scared of cars at some point. What's this going to mean? It's going to take my job or I can go get another job. You can either look at it on the positive, but I believe, and obviously it's going faster now and developing faster. But I think humans will figure this shit out. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I think it's well said.

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[SPEAKER_02] I think you have to look at the optimism and how do you be a beneficiary of this change.

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[SPEAKER_02] I think we each need to make a decision. [SPEAKER_02] Do you accelerate and drive faster into it and have a chance to take the steering wheel? [SPEAKER_02] Or do you sit back and be scared and crash into the wall? [SPEAKER_02] So I think well, we're in Europe. [SPEAKER_02] So we'll sit back and be. [SPEAKER_02] You guys are going to crash into the wall. [SPEAKER_02] You guys are. [SPEAKER_02] I know. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I think it's well said. [SPEAKER_02] I think you have to look at the optimism and how do you be a beneficiary of this change. [SPEAKER_02] I think we each need to make a decision.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Do you accelerate and drive faster into it and have a chance to take the steering wheel? [SPEAKER_02] Or do you sit back and be scared and crash into the wall? [SPEAKER_02] So I think, well, we're in Europe. [SPEAKER_02] So we'll sit back and be. [SPEAKER_02] You guys are going to crash into the wall. [SPEAKER_02] You guys are. [SPEAKER_02] I know. [SPEAKER_04] That's an option. [SPEAKER_04] We'll take that one. [SPEAKER_02] Bro, you guys.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] I want to take a harder stance. [SPEAKER_02] I feel like Europe is the sick man of the world right now. [SPEAKER_02] I feel like Europe could have some of the foundational civilizational aspects of Western culture that came out of here, London, England, right? [SPEAKER_02] And it feels like they're not seizing the opportunity to lead, to create the future. [SPEAKER_02] So I think humanity is driven by people that seize the opportunity. [SPEAKER_02] And I think you can decide, are we going to be passive onlookers of change? [SPEAKER_02] Are we going to be driving that change? What opportunity did you not seize that you wish you had seized?

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Should I have just been in the Valley founding some company and being more involved in tech? [SPEAKER_01] But I don't know. [SPEAKER_01] I don't have any regrets or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01

But I do like the Drake line where he's like, if we hadn't made it here, we would be out in Silicon trying to get our billions on. And I always relate with that. I think it's a good line. Does money make you happy? Money buys freedom. And I think freedom makes people happy. But I think there is the famous saying, more money, more problems, which is all the way true. So I think it's a double-edged sword for sure. There's a lot more to manage, a lot more stress, but then there's also a lot more freedom. And if you want to survive, it's no different than food. My mom was a nurse and my dad was a roofer. We were fine, but I wasn't around anything like that.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Where did you get your animalistic drive from? Yeah, I remember a specific moment where my parents were getting divorced and my dad had to pay a lot of alimony and he was crying. It was one of the only times I've ever seen him cry because he had to sell everything he loved to be able to afford living.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] And I thought to myself, I never want to be this crying father who isn't able to afford much and telling his kids we have to move to a different house and selling everything that he had. I remember he had to sell his snowboard, his little shitty snowboard just for $150 and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

And it's like, now I'm blessed to be able to even just snowboard. So I think of small things like that.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] And that moment definitely stuck out to me to be like, yo, I don't want to be in that position. [SPEAKER_01] So I need to figure out money. We were chatting before about, I said, you know, I tell my girlfriend about having you on the show. And I think there's a lot that the world doesn't know about Jake, but they think they know from the public persona.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] You obviously work with him on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_04

What does the world not know that you know from the unique perspective that you have?

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah, Jake I think is fundamentally a very kind, generous human. [SPEAKER_02] So I think a lot of the philanthropy supporting young up and comers, anecdotes of friends that are suicidal coming to Jake for help and Jake spending his time and money to just take care of people, I think is undertold. [SPEAKER_02] But maybe that's a fine way to be about it. [SPEAKER_02] I don't think Jake is doing it for PR. [SPEAKER_02] I think he just genuinely is a very kind, generous human being, which may be alternative to the boxer beating and talking shit to Mike Tyson type of character that he projects.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Are you ever just sitting there like, oh, no, no, be nice. [SPEAKER_04] Don't say that to Mike.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Mike Tyson type of character. [SPEAKER_02] No, I think, well, one of them. [SPEAKER_02] We're selling fights, dog. [SPEAKER_02] I think we're thick as ever in it. [SPEAKER_02] So I'm just on the fucking roller coaster. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I'm laughing. [SPEAKER_02] No, no. [SPEAKER_02] But I think part of it, I have a troll tendency myself. [SPEAKER_02] I kind of like seeing the absurdity or the chaos of just funny things happening in the world. [SPEAKER_02] I think there's an amusement part of just, this is interesting. [SPEAKER_02] I get to perceive an interesting experience. [SPEAKER_02] I want to see more interesting stuff. [SPEAKER_02] And if Jake is out there making interesting things happen in the world, that's really funny to me on a personal level. [SPEAKER_02] And then maybe that's the second point in terms of working closely.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I'm very impressed with the endurance and the context switching ability. [SPEAKER_02] I think we got to spend three hours with the president a couple weeks ago and maybe not to make the direct comparison, but I was just very impressed with the president just being on and context switching really hard. [SPEAKER_02] Remembering people's faces, having good conversations, going to rally, dancing, going on a podcast, doing a TikTok dance and just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. [SPEAKER_02] Just switching and being in flow constantly. [SPEAKER_02] I think that's one thing that I see some parallel to.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I think Jake's raw energy output is very, very high.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] And I can speak to that as being top of my class at Stanford, graduated computer science, honors and distinction, had a perfect SAT score.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I've seen the caliber of smart people and the endurance

SPEAKER_02

The president just on and context switching really hard. Remember people's faces having good conversations, going to rally, dancing, going on a podcast, doing a TikTok dance and just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Just switching and being in flow constantly. I think that's one thing that I see some parallel. I think Jake's just raw energy output is very, very high. And I can speak to that as being top of my class at Stanford, graduated computer science, honors and distinction, had a perfect SAT score. I've seen the caliber of smart people and the endurance and energy levels. And I think it's Jake's endurance and energy is very, very high. And then I think the other part of what I think is an interesting nuance is that you can switch from being a celebrity, getting paparazzi when we're out in LA to talking shit as a professional athlete. And then but actually having to train twice a day, eight hours a day doing the recovery, then jumping on business calls with literally the most famous CEOs that have been on your show, right? Like advising them on their marketing strategies. Sitting down with Sam.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] Sam. Yes. I mean, I would say Sam is, yeah, Sam is great. We love Sam. But I think that context switching, because I think people just see snapshots of Jake and it's okay, you just see the full 360. It's cool. I'm inspired by the level of context switching and the flow to be able to move with all these different circles.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for the nice words. Yeah. I think a lot of people don't know shit about me, which is even if they watch everything or know, you still haven't met me or spent time. I think the number one thing that people say to me after meeting for the first time is you were a lot different than I expected. [SPEAKER_03] Oh, so you thought I was a dickhead fucking retard. I don't know. My bad, bro. Cool. You mentioned getting to spend a couple of hours with the president. This was from friends of yours, not from me. So I'm not stoking any flames here. They are. Would you like to run for office or be involved in politics a lot more?

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] I wouldn't like to, but I feel like it could be needed at some point. I've always said Jeff was actually the first one that mentioned it six years ago or so. He was like, you're going to be the president and you should run for president. And I was like, ha ha ha. And then it slowly became less of a joke. And people actually, other people started saying it to me. And then I get, I just hang out with Trump and I go on stage and do a speech off the top. And the first thing he says to me on stage when I turn around is, oh, you're going to run for office someday. And then I, we go backstage and he's like, you should be the president. And then he endorses me. But to answer the question, it's like, I would only want to do it if I was A, the best person for the job. And if B, there was someone like a Kamala Harris, running that could have the potential to ruin the United States. And I would have to go and oppose them and save the country. But I don't really want to sign up for that workload if I don't have to. And if there's someone better to do it. And that's how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_04

With, I'm in the UK and I'm in London. Do you think Trump's doing a good job? Iran is a challenging situation. He's got himself into deglobalization is a thing. Do you think he's doing a good job?

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Yes, I do. I think he is arguably one of the best presidents the United States has had in this term. There's so much propaganda and things, but at the end of the day, he's doing an incredible job and there's always going to be criticisms. I mean, that's why, again, I wouldn't maybe want to sign up for the job because no matter what you do, people are going to think they have a better answer, but we're not in the room. I believe in him as a person and as a human being. And so I'm not going to maybe agree with everything he says or does. And I think he just said, I'm glad someone died on the internet. I don't agree with that, but overall, that's my president. I'm going to back him and support him and say that he's doing a good job.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] Like to me, I think he's a very founder president, right? I think he actually makes bold decisions and tries to mold the future. But I think a lot of politicians are just very much dictated by the flows of polling. There's a boldness and a leadership quality there that I think in a very globally challenging, interesting time, it's like, do you want your leaders to have boldness to take some risks? Or do you have someone that's more passive? And I think that's something that from a venture side, you want to back founders and leaders that will be able to take risk, right? Venture capital is a risk taking business. And I think there's a very unique time in history of, are we going to have a multipolar world? Are we going to have US hegemony continue for another century? I think it's an open question, right? So then it's like, which founder, which CEO do you want to be in that seat? And I think you'd likely want it again, from a venture capital hat on, you'd want to bet and put your money or your support to a bold, fearless leader.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And you don't want a career politician running a business. The first startup in America was America. It was a business. And so you don't want a career politician running things. And I think it's a very difficult position to be in. [SPEAKER_02] I think it's an open question, right? [SPEAKER_02] So then it's like, which founder, which CEO do you want to be in that seat? [SPEAKER_02] And I think you'd likely want it from a venture capital hat on, you'd want to bet and put your money or your support to a bold, fearless leader. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And you don't want a career politician running a business. [SPEAKER_01] The first startup in America was America.

SPEAKER_01

It's a fucking business. And so you don't want a career politician running things. And I think it's a very difficult position to be in.

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_01] And I think no matter what you do as president, any of the terms, any of the US presidents, there's always going to be 50 to 60% of people that are like, no, they suck.

SPEAKER_01

You suck. [SPEAKER_03] That shouldn't have done that. [SPEAKER_03] I have a better solution. [SPEAKER_03] Okay, buddy, then go fucking do it. Then become president and fucking fix it. So that's my thing on it. We released a show today with Matt Stegman, who's the president and CBO of Andro.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] And I asked him, do you feel any moral responsibility for how your products are used in conflict zones like Iran? [SPEAKER_04] And he said, no, we support democratically elected governments only. [SPEAKER_04] So they are voted for by the people. [SPEAKER_04] And what they choose, we support because they are democratically elected. [SPEAKER_04] Do you agree with that as a stance? [SPEAKER_04] And if you think about Anthropic disagreeing with the Department of War and the Pentagon, do you think that's wrong? [SPEAKER_04] I mean, I think generally, where does that nexus of decision making go? Right?

SPEAKER_02

Do you want an unelected tech executive making that call or your democratically elected representative making that call? So I think from a fundamental culture governance perspective, I would not want to have the ego to say, hey, I'm smarter than the president to make a game time nuclear decision. I feel it's egocentric to say that I built a tech company, so I get to make the decision for the rest of the world. If we believe in democracy, which we do, then the democratically elected leader gets that call.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] To me, if you want to talk about taking war making decisions away from our government, okay, we could have some weird techno fascist thing too. [SPEAKER_02] It's a competition of ideas.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe that does happen in other countries and other regimes. I think there's a breed of arrogance around saying, hey, I think I'm smarter than everybody else, so I get to make the call versus we're in a society with constituents and we vote for someone to make that call. Yes, and I think the human evolution is inevitable. [SPEAKER_01] So we're going to these systems anyway. [SPEAKER_01] So if Andorra wasn't going to build it, then is someone who's evil in the wrong hands in another country going to build it and then we don't have it? [SPEAKER_01] So it's needed. [SPEAKER_01] But I think also their mission is to make things safer for humans.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] That's the autonomous side of it. [SPEAKER_01] And so if something needs to be done, then maybe fewer people will actually die because of their technology. [SPEAKER_01] We mentioned Sam.

SPEAKER_04

We mentioned OpenAI.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] They very, I don't know how to say it, maybe opportunistically took advantage of it and swept in and provided a solution. [SPEAKER_04] You're the master of content. [SPEAKER_04] You're the master of storytelling. [SPEAKER_04] He then got heat for it. [SPEAKER_04] What would your advice be to him in terms of the messaging, the comms around the heat that he gets for jumping in? [SPEAKER_04] Who gives a fuck? Seriously. Seriously? [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, who gives a fuck? Someone has to do it. And rather to be in the rooms and a part of that thing than out of it. So at the end of the day, I don't have advice for him.

SPEAKER_01

He's doing what he thinks is best in his decision making. And there's going to be repercussions. And again, I think we live in a society where no matter what someone does, they're going to be hated or loved or hated or loved. So at the end of the day, you just have to make decisions and march on. My sense is that the tech leaders are becoming more and more politicians because they have bigger impact on culture, on society. [SPEAKER_02] Sam is in that position. [SPEAKER_02] He has a lot of information.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] He's trying to make his best decision.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] My only secondary comment on it would be show the human side of himself more, right? [SPEAKER_02] Because I think President Trump does a very good job of showing the raw human. [SPEAKER_02] And I think President Obama also had that similar quality on the other side of just showing a humanity to his decision making. [SPEAKER_02] You said about showing your humanity. [SPEAKER_04] You got me in trouble this weekend. [SPEAKER_04] Because I said to my girlfriend, Jake Poole, and honestly, I was expecting maybe mixed response. [SPEAKER_04] And she's like, oh, my God. [SPEAKER_04] Did you see the video of him supporting his girlfriend at the Olympics?

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Oh, my God. [SPEAKER_04] Would you do that for me? [SPEAKER_04] Would you have been there? [SPEAKER_04] I was like, no fucking way. [SPEAKER_03] I would be in the office.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_03] Are you kidding? [SPEAKER_03] She's like, I knew it. I knew it. See, why can't you be more like him? That's right. And I'm like, fuck.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] I'm joking. [SPEAKER_04] I'm backtracking. [SPEAKER_04] You know when you're joking, it's not funny. [SPEAKER_04] And you're like, oh, fuck. [SPEAKER_04] It is something I wanted to touch on, which is I think relationships are really an art. [SPEAKER_04] What's your biggest advice on how to have an amazing relationship, but also crush it in work? Where do we start? [SPEAKER_04] Content, boxing, investing. [SPEAKER_04] What's your advice? [SPEAKER_04] I think in a relationship, it's communication.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] And I think you should always in the relationship try to be the 60%. [SPEAKER_01] If it's 60-40, you and your partner should both be fighting to be the 60%.

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[SPEAKER_01] And I think that, be there for each other and do more and love more and support more. [SPEAKER_01] And we should always be in a competition of, who massaged who today? [SPEAKER_04] What's your biggest advice on how to have an amazing relationship, but also crush it in content, boxing, investing. What's your advice? [SPEAKER_04] I think in relationship, it's communication.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] And I think you should always in the relationship try to be the 60%. If it's 60-40, you and your partner should both be fighting to be the 60%. And I think be there for each other and do more and love more and support more. And we should always be in a competition of who massaged who today? Who gave the first love letter? If my fiancé writes me a love letter, I'm like, I'm going to write a better one back to you. So then she'll write another. I think that friendly competition in a relationship is good and communication. Letting them see you, every side of you and fully who you are. I think that's very, very important from early on. Tell them everything from day one. I think that builds the trust and the foundation.

SPEAKER_02

Is there a side of you that you're most scared to share?

SPEAKER_04

I'm not really afraid. I think I've talked a lot about my struggles more so in the past because I was struggling more when I was younger. In childhood fame, living in Los Angeles, being surrounded by the wrong people. But I do think dealing with mental health, my mind can become a crowded and dirty and stressful place. And it's a practice every day to manage it. And I think that's where I've fallen in love with breath work and meditation and spiritual journeys with ayahuasca, toad, mushrooms, all of these things to learn more about myself and my mind. And so I would say mental health is always something that can fluctuate for me. And it's something that personally I have to actively manage.

SPEAKER_02

Do you know when it's going down? Yeah, I don't know. It's always different. That's the weird part about it. I think it's not something you can fully grasp. And sometimes you don't know until you're in the thick of it and you're like, oh, I haven't been taking care of myself mentally. Do you hate it? So I'm an addict in everywhere. [SPEAKER_04] I don't drink anymore because I did that. I'm very grateful because it makes me good at what I do. I'm addicted to what I do. Are you happy or sad to be an addict? I think being addicted to working and constantly doing something.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] But I do wish sometimes I think about what it would be like to feel normal where I don't have to constantly be progressing and doing things. But I don't know. This is my body. This is my brain. This is my destiny. This is who I am. So I'm very happy about that. But it is a double-edged sword sometimes. Like, you think I'm addicted to work is what you're saying? Well, I mean, with the greatest of respects, I think it takes one to know one.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] And I think no. Yeah. Yeah. I think to compete at the level that you do as quickly as you do in sport and to fight Anthony Joshua, Mike Tyson with the little ramp time you have, you have to be bluntly psychopathic to get there that fast in a brilliant way. I'm saying this in a good way. Yeah. No. To do the multitude of things that you do at the quality that you do. You have to be an addict. Again, I think we mischaracterize addiction as bad. And it's not always bad. Yeah. I think every top athlete is an addict. You have to be to be the best. I would agree.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] One thousand percent. I just think it's interesting the way you describe it as an addict. But you're right. Yeah. A hundred percent. When you think about your training. [SPEAKER_04] What was nuts about your training? I mean, it's so intense and demanding.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] And what's the most demanding? I would say the track work, sprints at the track is brutal. And my coach makes me run and run and run. And my heart feels like it's going to pound out of my chest. And your body has a central nervous system reaction because of how hard you're pushing yourself. And it's very uncomfortable. And then the day in and day out. And then you get lost counting the days until the fight. And you're just caught in the monotony of it, which can be very demanding and difficult and dry and boring and lonely. I mean, they say boxing is the loneliest sport for a reason. And it's very true. You're in there by yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Are you thinking when you're in it?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. But it becomes a flow state. But yes, it's a super high-fast-pace thinking match. And I think that's why I got good at boxing so fast is pattern recognition. I just think of it like recognizing patterns in the person that I'm fighting and then being able to expose it at the right time. And it's very calculated. I see you dropped your hand in the first round after you threw this punch. I'm going to wait for you to do that again in two minutes and hit you with the right punch to counter that. And adding those things up over round by round and remembering everything that they're doing and their habits and all of that is a pattern recognition game. I think I got good at it because my mind is better than every other boxer probably. If I had been doing it my whole life, I'd be the best boxer in the world for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Who have you thought that you'd like to fight? I think the one that would come close to the Tyson numbers is me versus McGregor, which would be fun. What number would you do it for? McGregor. Good question. 150? [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. I mean, it's at least worth that. Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] That's minimum probably. [SPEAKER_01] If I had been doing it my whole life, I'd be the best boxer in the world for sure. [SPEAKER_01] Who have you not thought that you'd like to fight? [SPEAKER_01] I think the one that would just be the only one that would ever come close to the Tyson numbers is me versus McGregor, which would be fun. [SPEAKER_01] What number would you do it for?

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] McGregor. [SPEAKER_01] Good question. [SPEAKER_01] 150?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] I mean, it's at least worth that. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] That's minimum probably. [SPEAKER_01] But that's a good number. [SPEAKER_01] So when you get 150, how much do you actually take home after all the mid-layer, mid-layer, mid-layer? [SPEAKER_04] It's an Android SPV, with a 30% SPV and a this and a this and a this and a this. [SPEAKER_04] Jake's a good businessman. [SPEAKER_04] Tell you about 10 shekels home with me.

SPEAKER_01

I take the most home out of any boxer. I have the best setup in boxing because I'm my own promoter and I'm the one negotiating with the platforms. And then I don't have a lot of people involved. It's just me and Nikisa on the boxing side of things. And so you'll take home 80% versus Eddie Hearn will take home 50% normally? No, I take home nearly 100%. Well, that's pretty great. [SPEAKER_04] I was going to say not to get into pocket watch Jake, but I think he's smart in structuring and smart in business. [SPEAKER_02] The percent I give is to my own company. I think you're missing a content thread.

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_04] I think you should do something for the partnership.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_04] Which is when you train for your next fight, you should bring Jeffrey to every session with you. And everything you do, Jeffrey's got to do. [SPEAKER_04] I'm down, but I'll puke out pretty early.

SPEAKER_04

I've done some workouts with Jake. [SPEAKER_02] Bro, I mean, yeah, it's not fun. [SPEAKER_01] And it just keeps on getting harder. That's what's nice about boxing, but also not nice is that it's a never ending challenge. And it only gets harder as you continue to fight the best. [SPEAKER_01] So final one before we do a quick follow. Why does the money matter anymore? I didn't mean that badly, but 150, but after 90 and after all the other stuff, you're flying private anyway. You probably got a Gulfstream anyway. Does it matter? Yeah, no, it doesn't in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01

But I think on the boxing side specifically, there's still things that I want to do in terms of goals. And they don't have to do with money. I want to become world champion. You really do? [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. But just for the story. Just to inspire kids that I was the most hated, the most doubted, the biggest underdog, the YouTuber, the Disney kid. And if I can become world champion, I think it would be the most inspiring sports story or one of the most inspiring sports stories in modern day history. I can inspire kids that even if all the odds are stacked against you, look what I did. And you can do something. Did you ever doubt the next transition?

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] I've seen everyone always said, oh, the YouTuber, oh, the Disney star. But did you ever doubt internally in your head? I know we always tell the world, no, no, no, I'll be great. [SPEAKER_04] No, for sure I did.

SPEAKER_01

YouTube, I was done with it. I didn't like it anymore. And was running into a lot of issues with demonetization. It just became a nightmare. And it was causing so many problems. And I was in Los Angeles and I didn't like what I was doing. I was like, I need to do something else. But first I had to stop doing YouTube. I literally stopped filming. And I noticed a lot of times in life you have to create space for something else to come in. And that's the way life works. And so I had to literally stop. And there was a space where I was trying to do things and maybe a little business over here. Music. I was making songs. And then I fell in love with boxing out of nowhere. But there was a time where I was like, I don't know what's going on. And that was when I was 21.

SPEAKER_01

This really is a final one. [SPEAKER_04] Pretty quick. You can only be, and Jeffrey, I know which way you want him to answer this one. You can be number one in the world at boxing, at content creation, or at investing. [SPEAKER_04] Investing. Actually, yeah. [SPEAKER_04] Genuinely. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, 100%. [SPEAKER_04] Why? [SPEAKER_04] Why?

SPEAKER_01

It's something that I can do forever. And it's really enjoyable. And I really love being a part of the cutting edge things in technology and advancing society and human evolution. And being able to meet and talk to and be friends with the smartest people in the world. I think it scratches my itch in my brain. I think I'm sapiosexual in that sense. I had no idea what he would say. [SPEAKER_02] But I think content, right? I think all of these things feed into each other. Right? [SPEAKER_02] And I think, again, [SPEAKER_02] Well, they genuinely do.

SPEAKER_04

When he, sorry, I didn't mean to. But when he's crushing at boxing, when he makes better content, the investing will be easier and easier. 100%. [SPEAKER_02] And I think it's okay to, just as founders are okay to say to bad customers or not tackle certain markets. I think it's okay to be like, hey, you LP, you get to allocate your money where you think you can maximize returns. If you think other people will do it better, great. Let's just see the numbers in a couple years. Let's compete. Right? I think. [SPEAKER_02] I know you tweeted to one of my friends, Jason Lampkin. Yeah, no, we said we're going to have more AUM, buddy.

SPEAKER_01

I was just like. [SPEAKER_03] We're coming for you, buddy. 100%. [SPEAKER_02] And I think it's okay to, just like founders are okay to say to bad customers or not tackle certain markets. I think it's okay to be like, hey, you LP, you get to allocate your money where you think you can maximize returns. If you think other people will do it better, great. Let's just see the numbers in a couple years. Let's compete. Right? I know you tweeted to one of my friends, Jason Lampkin. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, no, we said we're going to have more AUM, buddy. I was just like. [SPEAKER_03] We're coming for you, buddy. I'm fighting. We're going to do a quick fire.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Jake, you said about making room for things in life. Would you like kids? Yeah. That's my number one goal, honestly. That's what I think life's all about. I can't wait to be a father. My little best friends that I get to hang out with every day. [SPEAKER_04] Jeffrey, what's the best performing investment so far by multiple?

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_02] I think a couple from our fund. You mentioned Rahul Aerodome. That was a 10x in 18 months. Rolled a lot of that stock in the flock safety, which is crushing. Rahul is now the chief strategy officer there. Polymarket is a good early one. But just our incubations, right? We were at the ground floor. Those are better. W, crushing it. If you can crush better with a high ownership, that's where you really make a lot of money. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. No, it's exciting because I think with the expansion and the prediction markets and all of this stuff, I think we're excited about the opportunity ahead. But, yeah. But even just on the personal side, was the angel invested in ramp. So that's at a 50 mil entry value. So that's a 300x on a personal side. [SPEAKER_04] Jay, dinner's on him. Yeah. Dude, that's so good. That's fucking A. I wish I was. [SPEAKER_04] Do you want to hear something funny? I met Eric Glyman when he was doing Paribus. And then the night before, he came out with ramp. He was like, do you want to invest in my next thing? And I was like, yeah, no. Paribus wasn't that big. But good luck.

SPEAKER_02

No, so Paribus was my first angel investment ever. No way. I went to a high school summer camp at MIT. It was a selective summer camp called RSI with Kareem and Zach Frankel. And they went to Harvard. I went to Stanford. So I was their Silicon Valley plug. I gave them the recommendation for Paribus to Y Combinator. [SPEAKER_04] And I was like, I don't really know what. I think it was probably 24 at the time. You could have been co-founder of Ramp, basically, with that. [SPEAKER_04] Is the entry funnel into that? I mean, I should have. He wouldn't be sitting here with me today. He'd be like, fuck Jake Paul.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_04] Jake, what's the most expensive item you've bought that you've never used? [SPEAKER_01] I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is my Ferrari has 100 miles on it. And I think it came with 60. [SPEAKER_04] How much was that? Like, 800,000. [SPEAKER_01] You just don't like it? No, I'm just, I have too many cars in other ones as well. And there's a lot. Yeah. So I'm building a racetrack so I can use these cars. I've heard about this at the ranch. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] So that's, I'm like, bro, why do I have these cars if I can't drive them? But I can't. It's not fun for me to drive them on the roads because I can't rip it. So that's probably the thing that comes to mind. [SPEAKER_04] Well, maybe we can cross 100 miles soon then on that Ferrari. Let's fucking go, bro. Let's race. Let's race. [SPEAKER_04] You very kindly suggested driving on the track before, Jeffrey. I don't have my license. [SPEAKER_04] Actually? [SPEAKER_04] Well, it's a private track, so Jake can maybe bless you. [SPEAKER_02] Why don't you have your license?

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Well, in London, dude, we don't need to drive, do we? Because we have Uber and it's a city. And so. Autonomous cars soon, so no one needs to drive.

SPEAKER_03

[SPEAKER_02] You just never need to drive. [SPEAKER_04] Jeffrey, what fund product do you not have today that you would most like to have? Could be growth fund, could be fund of funds, could be secondary fund, could be credit, you name it. What do you not have the advice on? [SPEAKER_02] No, I think, just before the show, I think we've just been scaling up AUM, so we're well within nine digits now. I think Jake and I are very interested in the public markets. How does that look in a product? Like, you guys do a public fund?

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] Yes. [SPEAKER_02] I mean, basically, I think that's the way I think about it is that one of the edges that Jake brings to the table is mass distribution. Right? And I think the public markets are just trillions of dollars of assets out there that we could prosecute against. So I think it's, again, it goes back to the start. It's just like, okay, if we don't set limiters in terms of our ambition and our skill set, we play the largest markets. So let's keep playing. [SPEAKER_04] Axe Capital, watch out.

SPEAKER_04

When I say high performance, Jake, who's the first person that comes to mind and why? [SPEAKER_01] I thought of Michael Phelps, I guess. I don't know. [SPEAKER_02] Right? [SPEAKER_02] And I think the public markets are just trillions of dollars of assets out there that we could prosecute against. [SPEAKER_02] So I think it goes back to the start. [SPEAKER_02] It's okay, if we don't set limiters in terms of our ambition and our skill set, we play the largest markets. [SPEAKER_02] So let's keep playing.

SPEAKER_02

Axe Capital, watch out. [SPEAKER_04] When I say high performance, Jake, who's the first person that comes to mind and why? [SPEAKER_04] I thought of Michael Phelps, I guess. [SPEAKER_04] I don't know. [SPEAKER_04] I love Michael Phelps because he dispels the idea that you need to have a break, you need to have a rest day. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, I just think of greatness at the highest level and it's measurable. [SPEAKER_01] And so I think that's why it comes to mind. [SPEAKER_01] And you can't necessarily measure, okay, this is the greatest investor, but that's in that time. [SPEAKER_01] Who is the best right now? [SPEAKER_01] And that's not super measurable.

SPEAKER_02

[SPEAKER_01] But I think why Michael Phelps came to mind.

SPEAKER_01

Final one for both of you, and you have to give a different answer. [SPEAKER_04] If we sit down in 10 years' time, how would you define it has been very successful as a venture fund, as an investing house? [SPEAKER_04] You want to start, or? [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I mean, making our LPs very wealthy as well as ourselves and being a part of shaping history and shaping the greatest companies in the world. And yeah, making billions of dollars doing it for everyone and for ourselves. Yeah, I think it's well said. [SPEAKER_02] I would focus my take on it would be focused on probably 100 humans over the next 10 years that will change history.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_02] And we want to be supporters, comrades in arms in the trenches building the civilizational changing companies and the people that are at the ground floor doing it. [SPEAKER_02] So if we can be associated and friends with a large portion of that 100 people, that would be a huge honor. [SPEAKER_02] Guys, listen, this was such a joy to do. Jay, I'm so glad that you'd sit down with a 36-year-old. I really appreciate it. Me and Jeffrey, I mean, he went to university and I'm 36, so it's a tough one. Yeah, I'm going to regret that one for a long time.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] And this guy, Stanford, he's smart. [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, no, he's great.

SPEAKER_04

[SPEAKER_01] I'm going to regret the 36.

SPEAKER_01

[SPEAKER_04] I'm going to regret saying that to you, but someone told me that once. They were, and this was when I was 24. They were, oh, I think you're 35. And I was, that's fucked up. Nope. Thank you. So, at the end of the day, you just have to make decisions and march on. My sense is that the tech leaders are becoming more and more politicians because they have a bigger, bigger impact on culture, on society.

SPEAKER_02

Like, Sam is in that position. He has a lot of information. He's trying to make his best decision. My only secondary comment on it would be show the human side of himself more, right? Because I think that, I think President Trump does a very good job of showing, like, the raw human. And I think President Obama also, I think, had that similar quality on the other side of just showing, like, a humanity to his decision making. You said about kind of showing your humanity.

SPEAKER_04

You got me in trouble this weekend. Because I said, again, to my girlfriend, Jake Poole, and honestly, I was expecting maybe, I don't know, mixed response. And she's like, oh, my God. Did you see the video of him supporting his girlfriend at the Olympics? Oh, my God. Would you do that for me? Would you have been there? I was like, no fucking way.

SPEAKER_03

I would be in the office. Are you kidding? She's like, I knew it.

SPEAKER_04

I knew it. See, why can't you be more like him? That's right. And I'm like, fucks. I'm joking. I'm backtracking. You know when you're joking, it's like kind of not funny. And you're like, oh, fuck. It is something I wanted to touch on, which is like, I think relationships are really an art. What's your biggest advice on how to have an amazing relationship, but also crush it in fuck, where do we start? Content, boxing, investing. What's your advice? I think in relationship, it's communication.

SPEAKER_01

And I think the, you know, you should always in the relationship try to be the 60%. Like if it's 60-40, you and your partner should both be fighting to be the 60%. And I think that, and be there for each other and do more and love more and support more. And like, we should always be kind of in a competition of like, who massaged who today? Who gave the first, who wrote the love letter? Like if my fiance writes me a love letter, I'm like, I'm going to write a better one back to you. So, and then she'll write another. Like, so I think that friendly competition in a relationship is good and communication. Letting them see you, like every side of you and fully who you are.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's very, very important from like early on. Like tell them everything from like day one. I think that builds the trust and the foundation. Is there a side of you that you're most scared to share? I'm not really afraid. I think I've talked a lot about my struggles more so in the past because I was struggling more when I was younger. In like childhood fame, living in Los Angeles, being surrounded by the wrong people. But I do think like dealing with mental health, like my mind can become a like crowded and dirty and stressful place. And it's a practice every day to manage it.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that's where I've like fallen in love with breath work and meditation and spiritual journeys with ayahuasca, toad, mushrooms, all of these things to learn more about myself and my mind. And so I would say like mental health is always something that can fluctuate for me. And it's something that like personally I have to actively manage. Do you know when it's going down? Yeah, I don't know. It's like it's always different. That's the weird part about it. I think it's like not something you can like fully grasp. And sometimes you like don't know until you're like in the thick of it and you're like, oh, shit, I haven't been taking care of myself mentally.

SPEAKER_01

Do you hate? So I'm an addict in everywhere.

SPEAKER_04

I don't drink anymore because I did that. I'm very grateful because it makes me good at what I do. I'm so addicted to what I do. Are you happy or sad to be an addict? I think being addicted to working and like constantly doing something.

SPEAKER_01

But like I do wish sometimes I like think about what it would be like to like feel normal where like I don't have to constantly be like progressing and doing things. But I don't know. Like this is my body. This is my brain. This is like my destiny. This is who I am. So like I'm not I'm very happy about that. But it is a double edged sword sometimes. Like you think I'm addicted to work is what you're saying? Well, I mean, with the greatest of respects, I think it takes one to know one.

SPEAKER_04

And I think.

SPEAKER_03

No.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. I think to compete at the level that you do as quickly as you do in sport and to fight Anthony Joshua, Mike Tyson with the little ramp time you have, you have to be bluntly psychopathic to get there that fast in a brilliant way. I'm saying this in a good way. Yeah. No. To do the multitude of things that you do at the quality that you do. You have to be an addict. Again, I think we kind of mischaracterize addiction bad. And it's not always bad. Yeah. I think every top, top athlete is an addict. You have to be to be the best. I would agree.

SPEAKER_01

One thousand percent. I just think it's interesting the way you describe it as like an ad. Like, but but you're right. Yeah. A hundred percent. When you think about your training.

SPEAKER_04

What was nuts about your training? I mean, it's just so intense and demanding.

SPEAKER_01

And what's the most demanding? I would say the track work, like sprints at the track is just brutal. And my coach just makes me run and run and run and run. And like my heart feels like it's going to pound out of my chest. And your body like has like a central nervous system reaction because of how hard you're pushing yourself. And it's like very uncomfortable. And then just the day in and day out. And then you just like get lost and counting on the days until the fight. And you're just like the monotony of it, I think, can be very demanding and difficult and dry and boring and lonely. I mean, they say boxing is the loneliest sport for a reason. And it's very true.

SPEAKER_01

You're in there by yourself. Are you thinking when you're in it? Yeah. But I mean, I guess it becomes like a sort of flow state. But yeah, it's like a super high fast pace thinking match. And I think that's where I told people like why I got good at boxing so fast is like pattern recognition. And I just think of it like recognizing patterns in the person that I'm fighting and then being able to expose it and doing it at the right time. And it's very calculated. And I see you dropped your hand in the first round after you threw this punch. I'm going to wait for you to do that again in two minutes and hit you with the right punch to counter that.

SPEAKER_01

And adding those things up over round by round and remembering everything that they're doing and their habits and all of that is like just pattern recognition game. I mean, that's why I think I got good at it is because it's just my mind is better than other probably every boxer. If I had been doing it my whole life, I'd be the best boxer in the world for sure. Who have you not thought that you'd like to fight? I think that the one that like would just be the only one that would ever come close to the Tyson numbers is me versus McGregor, which would be fun. What number would you do it for? McGregor. Good question. 150?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it's at least worth that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

That's like minimum probably.

SPEAKER_01

But that's a good number, you know. So like. When you get 150, how much do you actually take home after all the mid-layer, mid-layer, mid-layer?

SPEAKER_04

It's like an Android SPV, you know, with a 30% SPV and a this and a this and a this and a this. Oh, Jake's a good businessman. Tell you about 10 shekels home with me.

SPEAKER_01

I take the most home out of any boxer. Like I have the best setup in boxing because I'm my own promoter and I'm the one negotiating with the platforms. And then I don't have a lot of people involved. It's just me and Nikisa on the boxing side of things. And so you'll take home like an 80% versus Eddie Hearn will take home 50% normally? No, I take home like nearly 100%. Well, that's pretty fucking great.

SPEAKER_04

I was going to say like not to get into pocket watch Jake, but I think he's like he's smart in structuring and smart in business.

SPEAKER_02

The percent I give is to my own company.

SPEAKER_01

I think you're missing a content thread.

SPEAKER_04

I think you should do something for the partnership. Yeah. Which is when you train for your next fight, you should bring Jeffrey to every session with you. And everything you do, Jeffrey's got to do. I'm down, but I'll puke out pretty early. Like I've done some workouts with Jake.

SPEAKER_02

Bro, I mean, yeah, like it's not fun.

SPEAKER_01

And it just keeps on getting harder. That's what it's also like nice about boxing, but also not nice is that it's like a never ending challenge. And it only gets harder as you continue to fight the best and the best. So final one before we do a quick follow.

SPEAKER_04

Why does the money matter anymore? I didn't mean that badly, but like kind of 150, but after 90 and after all the other stuff, like, you know, you're kind of flying private anyway. You probably got a Gulfstream anyway. Like, what does it matter? Yeah, no, it doesn't in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_01

But like, I think on the boxing side specifically, there's still things that I want to do in terms of goals. And they don't have to do with money. I want to become world champion. You really do?

Yeah. But just for the story, like just to inspire kids that I was like the most hated, the most doubted, the biggest underdog, the YouTuber, the Disney kid. And if I can become world champion, I think it would be the most inspiring sports story or one of the most inspiring sports stories in modern day history that I can inspire kids that even if all the odds are stacked against you, like, look what I did. And you can do something. Did you ever doubt the next transition?

SPEAKER_04

I've seen everyone always said, oh, the YouTuber, oh, the Disney star. But did you ever doubt internally in your head? I know we always tell the world, no, no, no, I'll be great. No, for sure I did.

SPEAKER_01

YouTube, like I was done with it. I didn't like it anymore.

SPEAKER_01

And was running into a lot of issues just with like demonetization. It just became a nightmare. And it was causing so many problems. And I was in Los Angeles and I didn't like what I was doing. I was like, I need to do something else. But first I had to stop doing YouTube. I literally stopped filming. And I noticed a lot of times in life you have to like create space for something else to come in. And that's just the way life works. And so I had to literally stop. And there was like a space where I was trying to do things and maybe a little business over here. Music. I was making songs. And then I like fell in love with boxing out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_01

But there was a time where I was like, I don't know what the fuck's going on. And that was when I was like 21. This really is a final one.

SPEAKER_04

Pretty quick. You can only be, and Jeffrey, I know which way you want him to answer this one. You can be number one in the world at boxing, at content creation, or at investing. Investing.

SPEAKER_01

Actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Genuinely. Yeah, 100%. Why? Why?

SPEAKER_01

It's, I think, something that I can do forever. And it's really enjoyable. And I really love being a part of the cutting edge things in technology and advancing society and human evolution. And being able to meet with the, and talk to and be friends with the smartest people in the world. I think it scratches my itch in my brain. I think, like, I'm sapiosexual in that sense. I had actually no idea what he would say.

SPEAKER_02

But I think, but I think even, like, content, right? Like, I think all of these things feed into each other. Right? And I think, again, Well, they genuinely do.

When he, sorry, again, I didn't mean to. But when he's crushing at boxing, when he makes better content, the investing will be easier and easier. 100%. And I think it's okay to, just like founders are okay to say to bad customers or not tackle certain markets. I think it's okay to be like, hey, you LP, you get to allocate your money where you think you can maximize returns. If you think other people will do it better, like, great. Let's just see the numbers in a couple years. Let's compete. Right? Like, I think. I know you tweeted to one of my friends, Jason Lampkin.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, no, we said we're going to have more AUM, buddy.

SPEAKER_01

I was just like.

SPEAKER_03

We're coming for you, buddy. I'm fighting. We're going to do a quick fire.

SPEAKER_04

Jake, you said about making room for things in life. Would you like kids? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's, like, my number one goal, honestly. That's what I think life's all about. I can't wait to be a father. Great. My little best friends that I get to hang out with every day. Jeffrey, what's the best performing investment so far by multiple?

SPEAKER_04

I think a couple from our fund.

SPEAKER_02

You mentioned Rahul Aerodome. That was a 10x in 18 months. Rolled a lot of that stock in the flock safety, which is crushing. Rahul is now the chief strategy officer there.

SPEAKER_02

Polymarket is a good early one. But just our incubations, right? Like, we were at the ground floor. Those are, like, better. W, crushing it. If you can crush better with a high ownership, that's where you really make a lot of fucking money.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, no, it's exciting because I think with, you know, the expansion and the prediction markets and all of this stuff, I think we're excited about the opportunity ahead. But, yeah. But even just on the personal side, was the angel invested in ramp. So that's, like, at a 50 mil entry value. So that's, like, a, whatever, 300x on a personal side. Jay, dinner's on him.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Dude, that's so good. That's fucking A. I wish I was.

SPEAKER_04

Do you want to hear something funny? I met Eric Glyman when he was doing Paribus. And then the night before, he came out with ramp. He was like, do you want to invest in my next thing? And I was like, yeah, no. Like, Paribus wasn't that big. But good luck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

No, so Paribus was my first angel investment ever. No way. I went to a high school summer camp at MIT. It was, like, a selective summer camp called RSI with Kareem and Zach Frankel. And they went to Harvard. I went to Stanford. So I was, like, their Silicon Valley plug. I gave them the recommendation for Paribus to Y Combinator. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04

And I was like, I don't really know what.

SPEAKER_02

I think it was probably, like, 24 at the time. You could have, like, co-founder of Ramp, basically, with that.

SPEAKER_04

Is the entry funnel into that? I mean, I should have.

SPEAKER_02

He wouldn't be sitting here with me today.

SPEAKER_04

He'd be like, fuck Jake Paul. Jake, what's the most expensive item you've bought that you've never used? I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is, like, my Ferrari has, like, 100 miles on it.

SPEAKER_01

And I think it came with, like, 60. How much was that? Like, 800,000. You just don't like it?

SPEAKER_04

No, I'm just, like, I have too many cars in other ones as well.

SPEAKER_01

And there's a lot. Yeah. So I'm building a racetrack so I can use these cars. I've heard about this at the ranch.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So that's, I'm like, bro, why do I have these cars if I can't drive them?

SPEAKER_01

But, like, I can't. It's not fun for me to drive them on the roads because I can't, like, rip it. So that's probably the thing that comes to mind. Well, maybe we can cross 100 miles soon then on that Ferrari.

SPEAKER_04

Let's fucking go, bro. Let's race. Let's race. You very kindly suggested driving on the track before, Jeffrey. I don't have my license. Actually? Well, it's a private track, so Jake can maybe bless you.

SPEAKER_02

Why don't you have your license?

SPEAKER_04

Well, in London, dude, we don't need to drive, do we? Because we have Uber and it's a city. And so. Economist cars soon, so no one needs to drive.

SPEAKER_02

You just never need to drive.

SPEAKER_04

Jeffrey, what fund product do you not have today that you would most like to have? Could be growth fund, could be fund of funds, could be secondary fund, could be credit, you name it. What do you not have the advice on? No, I think, just before the show, like, I think we've just been scaling up AUM, so we're well within nine digits now.

SPEAKER_02

I think Jake and I are very interested in the public markets. How does that look in a product?

SPEAKER_04

Like, you guys do a public fund? Yes.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, basically, I mean, I think that's the way I think about it is that one of the edges that Jake brings to the table is mass distribution. Right? And I think the public markets are just, you know, trillions of dollars of assets out there that we could prosecute against. So I think it's, again, it goes back to, like, the start. It's just like, okay, if we don't set limiters in terms of our ambition and our skill set, like, you play the largest markets.

SPEAKER_02

So let's keep playing. Axe Capital, watch out.

SPEAKER_04

When I say high performance, Jake, who's the first person that comes to mind and why? I thought of Michael Phelps, I guess. I don't know. I love Michael Phelps because he dispels the bullshit that you need to have a break, you need to have a rest day. Yeah, I just think of, like, greatness at the highest level and it's measurable.

SPEAKER_01

And so I think that's why it comes to mind. And, like, you can't, like, necessarily measure, like, okay, this is the greatest investor, but, like, that's in that time. Like, who is the best right now? And that's not, like, super measurable. But that's, I think, why Michael Phelps came to mind. Final one for both of you, and you have to give a different answer.

SPEAKER_04

If we sit down in 10 years' time, how would you define it has been very successful as a venture fund, as an investing house? You want to start, or?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, making our LPs very wealthy as well as ourselves and being a part of shaping history and shaping the greatest companies in the world.

SPEAKER_01

And, yeah, making billions of dollars doing it for everyone and for ourselves. Yeah, I think it's well said.

SPEAKER_02

I would focus, like, my take on it would be focused on just probably, like, 100 humans over the next 10 years that will change history. And we want to be supporters, comrades in arms in the trenches building, like, the civilizational changing companies and the people that are, you know, at the ground floor doing it. So if we can be associated and friends with, you know, a large portion of that 100 people, that would be a huge honor. Guys, listen, this was such a joy to do.

SPEAKER_04

Jay, I'm so glad that you'd sit down with a 36-year-old. I really appreciate it. Me and Jeffrey, I mean, he went to university and I'm 36, so it's a tough one. Yeah, I'm going to regret that one for a long time. And this guy, Stanford, he's smart. Yeah, no, he's great.

SPEAKER_01

I'm going to regret the 36.

SPEAKER_04

I'm going to regret saying that to you, but someone told me that once.

SPEAKER_01

They were like, oh, I think, and this was when I was, like, 24. They were like, oh, I think you're, like, 35. And I was like, that's fucked up.

SPEAKER_01

Like, nope. Thank you.