SPEAKER_01
I want you to make me a fragrance that evokes fear.
SPEAKER_02
So, fear. I think I would do something very electric, before the storm. We can do that in perfumery. We have molecules to do that. And even certain naturals, chamomile blue, has this uncomfortable feeling of very raw rubber, even. And I think I would put some whetstones, in a dungeon or in a medieval torture room. Not that I know that, but.
SPEAKER_02
And what would I put? I would put something a little dry, a little mossy, maybe certainly musty. And something very unpleasant, so a clash. So in perfumery, how would I do a clash? Maybe patchouli with very wet or very dry notes. So you have the wetness, mossiness from the stones, in an old cemetery. And then you would have something very dry. And it's very unsettling, actually, for people. And we can do both.
SPEAKER_02
You see? Oh, look, this is a store. Do you like the store? Yeah. And look, what is this? I'm Chris Foudamiel. I'm a master perfumer. For me, I'm actually better with things that have a lot of personality and things that people want to make a mark on the market and make signature scents.
SPEAKER_02
I'm the creator, or one of the major co-creators, of Polo Blue by Ralph Lauren.
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Tom Ford, Amber Absolute.
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Fierce by Abercrombie & Fitch.
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And some others. From a very young age, I was always exposed to a lot, a lot, a lot of scents. Whether it's in the tropical forests, in the mountains there, or in the mountains of the Alps, or in the dormant volcanoes, where I was born, actually. My aunt and my uncle, they were working in the Michelin testing facilities. And that's where you run the cars over and over again. I love the labs. And in the lab, everything has to be perfect. It's like a car, because if in a car you're not perfect, you go off the road and you kill yourself. Michelin at the time was equipping Formula One cars. And after that, Michelin equipped the space shuttle, the American space shuttle.
SPEAKER_02
So for me, I could see how when you do the best, then you get to some really cool project. That's also that. And then you pioneer things. Because by doing new things, it brings another one, and then it brings another one. One thing that's been in my mind from the beginning, I wanted to create the Pixar of perfumery. I've always strived for people to understand that perfumery is just like any other art. You have to do your own imagination, just like in front of a picture. When I smell something, I see myself somewhere.
SPEAKER_02
If you want to create for other people, then it's how to make something that triggers the emotion you want to trigger in that person.
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You don't learn that in school. You learn in projects, on the job. You have to learn psychology. It's like a perfume psychology.
SPEAKER_01
Carrots? I bring you a little carrot.
SPEAKER_02
What do you think? Here we... Look. I need to smell this now. You see? Look. Mmm. It's very nice. Oh, this thing. Look. You like this one? You like this one? Oh, which one do you like? Oh, this one is good? What about this one? No, this one is not good. And this one? It's not good either. Only the one in the middle? Yeah. Very nice. Oui. Someone just wants the smell of jasmine when the bush is blooming on the west coast of California. Voilà. When you extract a flower, it never smells like the real flower, like jasmine absolute doesn't smell like jasmine on the branch. So you have to reconstitute the feeling of the natural jasmine. I don't want it to be too direct.
SPEAKER_02
I want the greenness of the leaves and I want maybe a little bit of the woodiness of the bush. You see? So maybe if we have a little... Do you see here? No, you see nothing. But there's nothing to see because the particles are mini, mini, mini. And then you smell like that. So this is nice, but I think it's still not green enough. So what I'm going to do, because we see too much of the floral, we see the fullness of the jasmine. Yeah. And so then I'm going to rewrite the formula so I can write on the computer or I'm going to write like that. So I need to make number 16. Sometimes I don't know and it's when I write it that I start to decide what I want.
SPEAKER_02
So it's 10% instead of pure. Now I'm going to dilute it 10 times. But if I start to think, to think, to think, to think, it's still thinking, but now let me think.
SPEAKER_02
This space here is like my private painter's studio. You have your big studio where you do all your biggest pieces of art. And then you have your private thing on the weekend or... Well, I've had this for many, many years now. Actually, I established it in 2010 in another location and I kept it with me. You see, all my medals, from Kung Fu and more medals here from Kung Fu.
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_02] But now let me think.
SPEAKER_02
This space here is my private painter's studio. You have your big studio where you do all your biggest pieces of art. And then you have your private thing on the weekend or... Well, I've had this for many, many years now. Actually, I established it in 2010 in another location, and I kept it with me. You see, all my medals, from Kung Fu, and more medals here from Kung Fu. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, I like all this. And here I have my bed in my lab, and it's very important because I don't make a difference between private life and perfumery life. When you're an artist, that's how it is? And this is a scent spray. That's from a friend in Los Angeles. He's a perfumer in Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_02
It's very eucalyptuous rosemary. But I love scent,
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_02] and I love to use them
SPEAKER_00
[SPEAKER_02] in different ways. [SPEAKER_02] I don't spray it [SPEAKER_02] before going to bed
SPEAKER_02
because it makes me think too much. Whether on my skin or on the pillow, I would never spray because then I start
[SPEAKER_02] thinking of the fragrance, [SPEAKER_02] how it should be built, how I built it. No, it's a nightmare for me. I cannot sleep. But when I... [SPEAKER_01] That's it. [SPEAKER_00] 10, [SPEAKER_00] 104, [SPEAKER_00] 525. I do have to fight against ingredients very regularly to make the fragrance smell the way I would like it to smell. [SPEAKER_00] Voilà. Okay. And then plus 45.1. I always say chemistry is nonlinear logic, and perfumery is nonlinear logic. You should put a bit of tocopherol in there. Do we have tocopherol? A molecule has 4,000 parameters to describe a molecule.
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_02] Do you understand? [SPEAKER_02] Just one. [SPEAKER_02] You have 100 in the fragrance. [SPEAKER_02] So people that are logical
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go crazy.
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_02] In perfumery,
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you put something, you put twice as much,
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_02] and it's still not twice as strong. [SPEAKER_02] Plus, there are so many parameters, [SPEAKER_02] so people get lost. [SPEAKER_02] You have to know
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which ones are going to be the most important, that are going to make a difference. [SPEAKER_01] So there was once [SPEAKER_01] when you and a collaborator [SPEAKER_01] discovered an unwanted [SPEAKER_01] wet dog note? Yes. [SPEAKER_01] In a composition. Yes. Oh, that was a nightmare. [SPEAKER_01] When there's something [SPEAKER_01] you don't like in a fragrance, [SPEAKER_01] how do you go ingredient [SPEAKER_01] by ingredient? So, for instance, what we do, we would take the formula, we have this one. So this one has probably 30 or 40 ingredients. We line them up here on the bench, and then I re-smell them one by one. So you smell them, and then you say, okay,
SPEAKER_02
could this have a little facet of that? And then you smell, you smell, you say, could that have another facet that's missing, and together they do that? But I'm going to see now that I have wet dog in my mind. And the other day here at Osmo, it was the, I said the kitchen rag, the dirty sponge. Oh, this smells. When that shows up, it's horror. It's horror. And I cannot think of one ingredient in here that smells of wet dog or one that smells of the kitchen rag. And then, well, actually I can think of one, but it was not in there. So then, when you don't find it in the ingredients or in a combination of ingredients in your mind, then you re-weigh the fragrance,
SPEAKER_02
all the green notes and all the woody notes separately to try to isolate the culprit or the culprits. The perfume industry's relationship with innovation is very poor. The last revolution is the pump, okay, which came in the 70s. Tell me the innovation in advertising: fragrance for her, fragrance for him, and blah, blah, blah. And then, and then the pump. Why don't you have perfumery in the news? Why don't you have
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_02] perfumery reviews
SPEAKER_02
in the Wall Street Journal when something comes out? Because they are lacking innovation and they are lacking disclosure, they are lacking transparency. The journalists cannot talk about something that is so secret and you cannot verify, and when you scratch, there's not so much innovation. [SPEAKER_01] Something around it. Yeah, texture or maybe some tulips around. Perfumery in the news? Why don't you have perfumery reviews in the Wall Street Journal when something comes out? Because they are lacking innovation, and they are lacking disclosure, they are lacking transparency. The journalists cannot talk about something that is so secret and you cannot verify,
SPEAKER_02
and when you scratch, there's not so much innovation. [SPEAKER_01] Something around it. Yeah, texture or maybe some tulips around. You can put some tulips. Yeah, voilà. Tulips around, all around. Yeah, voilà. Fantastic. I love that smell. I want the public to know that when you buy a bottle for $300, most of the time, it is not because the ingredients inside are expensive. No. It is not because of the amount of fragrance in the bottle. It's not because you have to pay the harvesters in Madagascar or in Egypt. The charm on the bottle is more expensive than the juice inside. When you create for these brands, you get some interesting ones, but it's rare. I want to do
SPEAKER_02
exciting projects, and I want to showcase the artistry of perfumery. For this, you have to create jobs in the industry that don't exist. So, when Osmo asked me one day if I wanted to join as a master perfumer, I said yes, right away. Osmo is this new fragrance design studio using AI and perfumers to create new styles of perfumery. We could not have been here 100 years ago because we didn't have the science, we didn't have the knowledge. On the computer, it screens about 300 million molecules. We are going to screen about 7 billion. To do that, it would take one perfumer 66,000 years. With the AI, you get new fragrance structures, and there is always something interesting
SPEAKER_02
in those structures. This is what you are doing in the lab that when I pass by, I get dizzy. Actually, this started when we asked the AI to screen already 100 million molecules, and the 301 came up. So, when I met 301, it was actually very oceanic, very fresh. And I said, okay, we should dig around that molecule more because we need new oceanic notes. And then, the chemist and the AI working together sent to our table this 391 306 that smells of melon. I don't care how the AI
SPEAKER_00
[SPEAKER_02] thinks. [SPEAKER_02] I see the AI [SPEAKER_02] as another colleague [SPEAKER_02] that thinks [SPEAKER_02] differently from me.
SPEAKER_02
What also is really important, which is unique at Osmo, I don't know one chemistry lab next to a master perfumer's lab in the world. Where's the, this one? Oh my God, this is so nice. Oh, this is crazy.
SPEAKER_01
[SPEAKER_02] This is crazy. [SPEAKER_02] You don't need [SPEAKER_02] to go to perfumer's
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school to know how to do melon anymore. You take that, it's a Photoshop, click the melon, cut and paste, melon, [SPEAKER_00] chh, chh. [SPEAKER_00] You're seeing this [SPEAKER_00] in real time. [SPEAKER_00] This is not a... [SPEAKER_00] This is fascinating. Some people, when they feel they have done big things or they feel they're there. Me, I still feel like a student at university. It's just one, one step. And I don't know where the road is going. [SPEAKER_01] Make me a scent [SPEAKER_01] that evokes [SPEAKER_01] optimism. Optimism. So I would have something super bright, super yuzu, citrus, lemon, but twisted.
[SPEAKER_02] I love the smell [SPEAKER_02] of lime, [SPEAKER_02] which is underrepresented [SPEAKER_02] in perfumery. [SPEAKER_02] And optimism, [SPEAKER_02] it means the base. [SPEAKER_02] It is also very strong, [SPEAKER_02] but the base would [SPEAKER_02] come into the fragrance. [SPEAKER_02] Is going. [SPEAKER_01] Make me a scent that evokes optimism. [SPEAKER_02] Optimism. [SPEAKER_02] So I would have something super bright, super yuzu, citrus, lemon, but twisted. [SPEAKER_02] I love the smell of lime, which is underrepresented in perfumery. [SPEAKER_02] And optimism means the base. [SPEAKER_02] It is also very strong, but the base would come into the fragrance.
[SPEAKER_02] So, strong woods or spices. [SPEAKER_02] Some spices I see as very emphatic and very energetic and very warm, too. [SPEAKER_02] For me, optimism, there's a big, big hug that takes you somewhere and opens your mind. [SPEAKER_02] So also abstract notes. [SPEAKER_02] Floral ozone, nitriles, such things bring you into outer space, and you don't want to think of the past, and it makes you think towards the future.