How To Build a Brand SO Magnetic, Corporate Giants Beg To Buy w/ Brian Mazza

Transcript

People are going to judge you no matter what, and 99% of the people want you to fail. But I love that shit. Brian Mazza is a lifestyle entrepreneur who recently sold his company HPLT to Lifetime Fitness last year. He's a master of building hospitality companies and world-class experiences, not to mention being a creator with over 800,000 followers on social media. I have had people leave the summits and, within an hour, be like, I just quit my job of 15 years, thank you. All right, dude, I don't know you, but I have to hold your arm right now, and we're going to get smacked in a 40-degree wave together. I can't let you go. You just immediately make them trauma bond. You're immediately hooked. We talked to him about what it takes to build a world-class experience, Lifetime's goal of becoming the go-to third space in communities across America, and something I think y'all will love is how he'd save the struggling bar industry. You're going to learn a ton in this one about the future of experiential marketing, but first, we got to get into the story that he told at the beginning of the show. We'll see y'all there. All right, so we're on the one-year anniversary of you selling HPLT to Lifetime. I'd love to just hear how that deal came together, talk a little bit about the background of the business as well, how Lifetime came to the table, all that stuff. Yeah, so, thanks for having me here. Yeah, of course. Nice to see you guys. Thanks for having us in the facility. Yeah, I know. It's a great, great facility here. Yeah. So I really had no intention of ever selling HPLT. The business wasn't built to really do that. It was more of an incubator accelerator for me personally, as well as building a community and just chasing something that I've missed my whole life as being an athlete, right? So I created this brand so I can continue to grow my network, continue to be around people that are going to sharpen my tool throughout all the summits, and play both sides, right? So I can do my personal branding stuff, but leverage HPLT, and HPLT can leverage my personal branding stuff as well, right? So we can all dance in the same pot. But we had a summit for 10,000 in September the previous year, and they had a VP from Lifetime attend it. I didn't know them. I didn't really know much about Lifetime prior to that. I was an Equinox guy. And then when I moved to the suburbs, I didn't go to Lifetime. I had my own gym. So I just trained out of my own facility there, which we still have, which is great. And then this guy, Jason Love, who's been at Lifetime, a wonderful guy, we hit it off all weekend. And he was like, man, this could be something really cool for a tension tool internally at Lifetime. So maybe you could throw some summits for us internally, and we can bring our top talent, top instructors, or personal training employees in. And it could be just a really cool reset weekend. Or offer tools to get them to perform a little bit better. And we were into it. And it was so turnkey for us at this point that we could have done this. I mean, I could do one tomorrow if I need to. And then he was like, hey, I want you to speak to this other, my boss, this awesome guy, Ifonda. And we hit it off on a call, and we were very aligned. And he was like, hey, actually, can you come to Boca? I want to just spend some time with you. I want to show you the Boca clubs. And I was like, no problem. I'll fly out tomorrow. So I went out there. And this, again, was just... Always get on the jet. I've always been that way my whole life, right? I've always been a yes man in that sense of if there's any opportunity that I feel like I can just meet new people and continue to grow, I'll travel where I need to go. It goes back to when I was in the hospitality days as a bottle runner. I was that 22-year-old kid when all these mega nightlife people needed iced coffees in the morning. Even though I was hungover as hell, I would still go get the iced coffees and the bagels for everyone. Yes, they had nice cars for me to drive in the Hamptons. But I was like, if I go do all this stuff, pick up their laundry, do all these things, they'll know that I'm reliable. And they'll always keep me around until there are opportunities, right? So I got on that plane, went to Boca for 24 hours. And I felt like it was an interview for me. And I spent about three hours in the car with this man I'd never met before. And we talked everything but Lifetime and HBLT. We talked about family. We talked about just how we want to continue through life and what means a lot to me. And then after that, he was like, hey, you passed the test. And I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, we're really interested in your business. I need you to speak to this woman, Jessie, who I think you've met. And she runs New York at the time. And I met her and we hit it off right away. And she was like, dude, I think we really need to have this internally. But I think we could do a lot more with it where we can help you reach more people. We can bring this summit to the masses and utilize our clubs and shoot content and all of that. And the conversation continued for about four or five months. And then I finally met the big man, BA, who was the boss and runs everything. And we hit it off, and it just came to, hey, we want to acquire your business. Let's see how it goes for the year. And we're rocking and rolling. So that accelerated really quickly. And then we sold it a year ago. Is this the same Boca trip where you got recognized? No, it's a different Boca trip. But so funny, right? I need to move to Boca. It's a different trip. And the conversation continued for about four or five months. [SPEAKER_02] And then I finally met the big man, BA, who was the boss and runs everything. [SPEAKER_02] And we hit it off, and it just came to, hey, we want to acquire your business. Let's see how it goes for the year. And we're rocking and rolling. So that accelerated really quickly. And then we sold it a year ago. [SPEAKER_00] Is this the same Boca trip where you got recognized? [SPEAKER_02] No, it's a different Boca trip. [SPEAKER_02] But so funny, right? I need to move to Boca. It's a different trip. I was like, you got to attribute that. [SPEAKER_00] That's good social proof that this is the Boca trip. [SPEAKER_00] Now I was thinking about it. [SPEAKER_02] Wow, good things happen in Boca. So I need to move there. You might actually have to move down there. Wow. I didn't think about that. [SPEAKER_01] That's fascinating. [SPEAKER_01] So they wanted to almost use it as a professional development internal tool. Yeah, that's what I was told. And I was like, oh, that's really neat. And then I was speaking to Melissa, who runs the business. And I said, hey, this could be maybe five, six, seven, eight events per year that we can just add as revenue. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] So let's do it. Why not? It'll be very easy for us to. [SPEAKER_01] And so have they amplified the scale of the business thus far? [SPEAKER_02] So, yeah. [SPEAKER_02] It's great that we get to utilize all of their resources internally that I didn't [SPEAKER_02] have previously, right? [SPEAKER_02] It was just me and Melissa running the business. [SPEAKER_02] But now I get the finance side of things. [SPEAKER_02] I get help there, the marketing as well. [SPEAKER_02] And just the resources within all the clubs, and the members get to have access to come. [SPEAKER_02] So that's been great. [SPEAKER_01] Right. [SPEAKER_02] But we still have such a big network of our own that we utilize a lot of our members still. But it's a great amenity for the Lifetime member. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] And I just look at overall, what does the future of fitness look like? [SPEAKER_00] And if you look at Nike and what they're doing with training after dark, you look at [SPEAKER_00] Bandit Running and their run clubs, you look at the different lifting programs that all [SPEAKER_00] these facilities are having, and this idea of creating a space where people can interact with each other and truly build a community where it's more of a horizontal relationship [SPEAKER_00] than vertical and top-down. [SPEAKER_00] It's an interesting play from Lifetime to see that, know that, come to you because you've [SPEAKER_00] already built it, and be like, okay, how do we integrate this into what we have, the infrastructure [SPEAKER_00] that we have, the audience that we have, and then be able to take it, make it even bigger. [SPEAKER_00] What does that look like in the future for them on like- Yeah. I mean, I don't even think we scratched the surface yet with them. I think there's so much more that we can contribute to what Lifetime wants to do on the innovation side of things. Lifetime is the best at what they do, right? It's these athletic country clubs, and no one can really touch them in that space. [SPEAKER_00] I like that positioning too, athletic country clubs. I mean, my kid, we go to a country club in my town, right? My kids don't even want to go to the one that I pay for. They're like, can we just go to Lifetime in Westchester? There's slides, there's rock climbing, there's basketball, there's pickleball, there's tennis. I mean, there's everything that you could do for a kid. And as a parent, you have childcare too. Not that my kids would go to that, but you have built-in childcare. [SPEAKER_02] I mean, who does that? [SPEAKER_02] So everyone wins there, right? But when we go to Lifetime in Westchester, the pools are awesome. The amenities are sick. I get to relax. My kids run around. They know so many people there. But in terms of back to your question, I think I would love to be tasked with [SPEAKER_02] more opportunity to innovate for them on these special projects, right? Because content is king. [SPEAKER_02] And just look what BPN just did with their ultra, right? [SPEAKER_02] I mean, I can't even imagine how many eyeballs. Lifetime could do five different series like that. Without a problem. [SPEAKER_02] And they could do a pickleball niche. [SPEAKER_02] They could do a swimming niche. [SPEAKER_02] They could do anything. [SPEAKER_02] Right? [SPEAKER_02] It's just a matter of allocating resources to do so. [SPEAKER_02] And having a change agent in the organization. Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02] So I think we're that stallion group that can do it. Your acquisition to me is the signal that they know what they're doing. [SPEAKER_01] They do. [SPEAKER_01] Oh, 100%. [SPEAKER_01] Between the Lifetime Austin buildout, which for context for people is this entire, [SPEAKER_01] childcare with a wet suite, which is sauna, cold plunge, all in one. [SPEAKER_01] It's this massive gym. They have a bar in there. [SPEAKER_01] That's even counterintuitive. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, you can turn up. [SPEAKER_01] You can turn up. [SPEAKER_01] And I'll tell you, it's so crazy. [SPEAKER_01] We were just... No, I haven't been, I haven't. He hasn't. Maybe he will. But we were just at Coral Gables. [SPEAKER_02] We did our micro summit, which is our one-day summits. [SPEAKER_02] And the pool was, I thought it was a nightclub. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] People are like, dude, what are we doing? [SPEAKER_02] I'm like, I have no clue. It was crazy. Sometimes it gets going. [SPEAKER_02] Gets going. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] But yeah, I think they definitely know what they're doing, right? [SPEAKER_02] They're on top of the game. [SPEAKER_02] I just think there's more opportunity for us to really do something really incredible. I think there's a huge opportunity just because I think about if we look at the fitness landscape [SPEAKER_02] And the pool was, I thought it was a nightclub. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I was, people are like, dude, what are we doing? [SPEAKER_02] I'm like, I have no clue. [SPEAKER_02] It was crazy. Sometimes it gets going. [SPEAKER_02] Gets going. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] But yeah, I think they definitely know what they're doing, right? [SPEAKER_02] They're on top of the game. I just think there's more opportunity for us to really do something really incredible. [SPEAKER_00] I think there's a huge opportunity just because I think about if we look at the fitness landscape [SPEAKER_00] and we look at the competition, quote unquote, landscape, you've CrossFit here, [SPEAKER_00] which is slowly dying or losing its reach, which sucks because I enjoy watching it. [SPEAKER_00] But overall, as a sport, dying. Then you have High Rocks, which is built more so for the endurance athlete, right? [SPEAKER_02] And it's democratized. [SPEAKER_02] Anyone can really do that. Anybody can do it. And to me, there's no, not saying the guys that are winning aren't specimens, but you look at CrossFit or football players or basketball players, and there are elements that make them freak athletes that are the thing that you want to watch. [SPEAKER_01] Like you can't be one of them. Yeah. No one here is jumping 40 inches. No one here is benching probably 315. [SPEAKER_01] You've been on camera saying you have 40 inch, right? No, 36. [SPEAKER_01] I've seen you training lately, bro. Good stuff. [SPEAKER_00] Thank you. [SPEAKER_00] Thank you. [SPEAKER_00] 36. [SPEAKER_00] See? Goddamn, Brian. I've seen the sprints. I've seen the sprints. I haven't seen the jumping. I've seen the sprints. [SPEAKER_00] He's got it on video. [SPEAKER_00] Don't feed the ego. [SPEAKER_00] You've got High Rocks over here. [SPEAKER_00] That's very, very endurance based, but there's nothing. [SPEAKER_00] And I know you guys are working on something, but there's nothing in the middle that [SPEAKER_00] has strength and power while maybe still adding some of the elements of endurance, but [SPEAKER_00] it's not the sole focus. [SPEAKER_00] Because I think this is fun to do one time. [SPEAKER_00] And unless you're competing, it doesn't have the addictive factor that something that's [SPEAKER_00] like, hey, I go from benching 225 10 times to 20 times, or I go from a 30-inch vert [SPEAKER_00] to a 36-inch vert, or whatever the case may be. [SPEAKER_00] But more the power explosive factors. [SPEAKER_00] And I feel like there's nothing that gets a crowd more pumped up than seeing [SPEAKER_00] a 315 clean. Yeah. Well, I think the LT games has been a great way to blend everything there. With the High Rocks stuff, listen, I think just fitness in general, if you're getting after it, awesome. Right. And that's the whole MO there. I don't think you're going to... Me personally, I've never done High Rocks. I have really no desire to do it. And I know a lot of brands are like, we need you to get into High Rocks. And I'm just like, it's not my thing. It's just really not. I don't... I have no desire to do it. I'll go and celebrate the homies and stuff. But with High Rocks, I think it's like maybe four or five times max. How much better are you really going to get? Unless you're dedicating your whole life to that. A few minutes. Right. So if you're doing your thing, sick. The LT games, it's really technical. You have to be super strong. [SPEAKER_01] Talk about the LT games a little bit. Yeah, the LT games is sick. [SPEAKER_02] You have, I think Noah Olsen won the first one, who was a CrossFit legend, competing there. And he was like, it was pretty tough. So I know they also do High Rocks and stuff. When you see them do High Rocks, in my opinion, I think they're just going through the motions of it. [SPEAKER_02] They're still crushing times. [SPEAKER_02] But the LT games is very difficult. [SPEAKER_02] And I think when you watch that, you see real athletes. [SPEAKER_02] You see real strength and power and what games should be. [SPEAKER_02] It's like when you used to watch, I was talking about it with my trainer, Tommy, today. [SPEAKER_02] I don't know if you guys remember during the CrossFit Games when they had the race through all of those dummies. [SPEAKER_02] And that was real athleticism. [SPEAKER_02] And Matt Frazier showed what he could do. [SPEAKER_02] He cooked them. [SPEAKER_02] Cooked them. [SPEAKER_02] He did it. [SPEAKER_02] It was like you training, right? [SPEAKER_02] He could beat anybody, right? So. Quick feet. I like to see when people have to be real deal athletes. Totally. Now, I'm not taking away from High Rocks. It's great. The community is pretty wild. Their growth is insane from when it first came here. [SPEAKER_01] I would be down to get canceled by the High Rocks community on this podcast, though. [SPEAKER_01] If we started saying some controversial shit, they could come for us. [SPEAKER_01] You know? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, it's fine. But I don't have any desire to really watch. [SPEAKER_02] If it was on TV, I would never watch it. [SPEAKER_01] It's done such a good job with modern branding and social rollout. [SPEAKER_01] That's the thing where it just seems like the CrossFit Games and even the Lifetime [SPEAKER_01] games, to an extent. [SPEAKER_01] I think the model from High Rocks is there, right? [SPEAKER_01] It is. [SPEAKER_01] Incredible photos of everybody. [SPEAKER_01] You look sick when you go. But we all look the same too. That's another reason why I don't want to go, because we all have the same leg sleeve. We all have the same line tattoo. [SPEAKER_02] Everyone's black on black on. [SPEAKER_02] We're all the same people. [SPEAKER_01] It's done such a good job with modern branding and social rollout. [SPEAKER_01] That's the thing where it just seems like the CrossFit Games and even the Lifetime [SPEAKER_01] Games to an extent. [SPEAKER_01] I think the model from High Rocks is there, right? [SPEAKER_01] It is. [SPEAKER_01] Incredible photos of everybody. [SPEAKER_01] You look sick when you go. [SPEAKER_02] But we all look the same, too. [SPEAKER_02] That's another reason why I don't want to go, because we all have the same leg sleeve. [SPEAKER_02] We all have the same line tattoo. [SPEAKER_02] Everyone's black on black on black. We're all the same people. And it's like I don't want to go and be with everyone like myself. I want to do other stuff. But we always joke about it. It's like you'd just be looking in the mirror for three hours. Yeah. But the homies that do it, I have a lot of friends that do it, and they do it really well. [SPEAKER_01] And I applaud them, and I think that's great. [SPEAKER_01] It's a mission. It's a good thing to go pursue. [SPEAKER_00] But I do think the opportunity is in that middle ground of what CrossFit couldn't [SPEAKER_00] be with what High Rocks did. [SPEAKER_00] Because you guys said they modernized the branding of sport and of fitness. [SPEAKER_00] Because you still look at CrossFit branding overall, and it's very 2001. [SPEAKER_00] But also impossible for the normal Joe to do. [SPEAKER_02] Yes. Right. If you can't Olympic lift. Yeah, you're done. You're cooked. [SPEAKER_00] You can't compete. [SPEAKER_00] No way. [SPEAKER_00] You can't compete. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] And I think that middle ground is such an opportunity. [SPEAKER_00] And the other thing I think about too is what do you think is needed to almost [SPEAKER_00] transcend these games or these competitions, right? [SPEAKER_00] And what I'll reference is Michael Jordan transcended basketball. [SPEAKER_00] OBJ, in many ways, transcended football. [SPEAKER_00] Noah Lyles is trying to transcend track, right? [SPEAKER_00] With being bigger personalities outside of the sport. [SPEAKER_00] Where do you think you have to go to be able to transcend and make something like this [SPEAKER_00] mainstream? Well, I think now with High Rocks, it's pretty incredible that these major brands are finally, [SPEAKER_02] I'm talking about major, major brands like Adidas, Puma, and Nike. [SPEAKER_02] They're finally buying into it with creating a shoe. [SPEAKER_02] I think it starts there, right? [SPEAKER_02] When Michael Jordan created his Jordan 1s, right? [SPEAKER_02] They created that for him for basketball. [SPEAKER_02] I don't think they knew how big that was going to eventually get. [SPEAKER_02] I think they knew he was going to be wonderful. [SPEAKER_02] But I think he's the highest-paid athlete still. On residuals. [SPEAKER_02] It's crazy. [SPEAKER_02] So I think now, especially with Adidas, when they're coming out with this new [SPEAKER_02] shoe that looks great, right? [SPEAKER_02] When Reebok was doing CrossFit, they never made a good-looking shoe. [SPEAKER_02] It was never a good-looking shoe. [SPEAKER_00] You tell me you didn't have 10 pairs of the Nano. [SPEAKER_02] No one made a really cool CrossFit shoe. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Now Puma is making a cool High Rock shoe. [SPEAKER_02] Adidas now is finally jumping on board and making a cool High Rocks or hybrid shoe, right? [SPEAKER_02] They're not going to say High Rocks, hybrid shoe. [SPEAKER_02] So I think that's the first start. [SPEAKER_02] And then once you have those big brands and big money behind it, they could start really [SPEAKER_02] getting the right athletes in there. [SPEAKER_02] Now, if High Rocks really wants to go to the next level, they're going to have to get [SPEAKER_02] it on TV. [SPEAKER_02] They're going to have to get real-deal partnerships and athletes in there to have a league. Now, I don't know. Is anyone going to really watch High Rocks on a Sunday? Probably not. [SPEAKER_02] But listen, the Premier League was able to do it, and look at them now. [SPEAKER_02] And they did that big monster deal with Peacock and NBC. [SPEAKER_02] No one, I'm a big soccer guy. [SPEAKER_02] No one watched the Premier League back in the day. [SPEAKER_01] It was like, CDR, we watched the Italian League. [SPEAKER_01] All right. So over the last two years of building Nibble, shipping nearly 8,000 UGC ads, and getting performance data on every single one of them, it became super clear. There are two types of brands. Those that understand creative volume and those that don't. The core difference was what they focused on. Brands that focused on volume plus hit rate were never complaining that Meta changed the algorithm. Their stuff just worked. And anytime we did work with one of those savvy brands, it was always on the same platform, Motion. [SPEAKER_01] Motion is by far the best tool to optimize your creative pipeline. It provides structure, visibility, and insights that your creative team needs to make better [SPEAKER_01] decisions. I like to think of it as what Meta would actually show you if they cared about your [SPEAKER_01] success. All the key metrics like three-second stop rate, winning angles, formats, competitor research, it's all built into their platform so you can make quicker and better decisions. They even just launched our new AI agent, Runneth, which functions as a 24/7 creative strategist, [SPEAKER_01] providing recommendations to your ad account. [SPEAKER_01] Y'all make sure to go check them out at motionapp.com. [SPEAKER_01] All right, let's get back to the episode. [SPEAKER_01] I think the challenge will always be, it's just not really that much of a spectator [SPEAKER_01] sport. [SPEAKER_01] And it's cringe. Yeah. Right? Watching the same person who looks the same continue to do it. [SPEAKER_01] Right, right, right. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. It's hard to really stand out. [SPEAKER_00] There's a world where if you did it like the BPN Ultra, people would tap in [SPEAKER_00] a little bit. [SPEAKER_00] If you like XYZ athlete, you could follow it. [SPEAKER_01] The BPN thing works because it is extreme. [SPEAKER_01] Right? [SPEAKER_01] And I think with content in particular, you have to have some sort of extreme or maximalist [SPEAKER_01] concept. [SPEAKER_01] You have to have some reason where you're like, all right, is someone going to die at this [SPEAKER_01] ultra marathon? [SPEAKER_01] Like the last man standing thing. [SPEAKER_01] Right, right, right. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. It's hard to really stand out. [SPEAKER_00] There's a world where if you did it like the BPN Ultra, people would tap in a little bit. [SPEAKER_00] If you like XYZ athlete, you could follow it. [SPEAKER_01] The BPN thing works because it is extreme. [SPEAKER_01] Right? [SPEAKER_01] And I think with content in particular, you have to have some extreme or maximalist concept. [SPEAKER_01] You have to have some reason where you're like, all right, is someone going to die at this ultra marathon? [SPEAKER_01] The last man standing thing. [SPEAKER_01] I think that's the problem with fitness too, a little bit. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And everything has to be extreme. [SPEAKER_02] Everything has to be extreme to stick. [SPEAKER_01] The challenge is that's just what the algorithms desire. I get it. [SPEAKER_01] Desire. But I think that is unfortunate sometimes. [SPEAKER_01] It's societally toxic. [SPEAKER_01] It is, right? It's terrible. I hear people in certain gyms, if your Hyrox time isn't good enough, they don't talk to you. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] That's actually the entire city of Austin tech. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] What are you doing? [SPEAKER_02] And I think running went through that too, right? [SPEAKER_02] It's like if you didn't run a sub-three, you're not cool. [SPEAKER_02] Totally. [SPEAKER_02] I'm not going to change my whole life to run a sub-three. [SPEAKER_02] No. It's a lot of training. [SPEAKER_02] I don't care enough to do that. [SPEAKER_02] I've made more money not going sub-three. [SPEAKER_02] Right. [SPEAKER_02] Exactly. [SPEAKER_02] Exactly. [SPEAKER_02] If I go sub-three, it's not like I'm going to make another million dollars. It's just not going to happen, right? So listen, I think people getting after it is great. Do your hard feats. It's amazing. Right. But also, people have to stop training for the craziest stuff just to be seen. [SPEAKER_01] Right. Be authentic in yourself. Be cool. Have some style. Yeah. And you should be okay. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] I think everyone's falling into the trap of trying to do the most extreme, novel thing. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] And you see it where it's like, I'm the first man to run. [SPEAKER_00] It'd be crazy, like the first man to run from here to Florida taking this route. [SPEAKER_00] And it's like, what are we doing? Now listen, if you have a charity component to it, awesome. Right. But I think I would like to see people get back to, I'm training to be a really healthy, fit dad. Right. Right. [SPEAKER_01] Right. Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Being a good role model. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. I'm not saying these people are bad role models, but let's tone it down a bit. [SPEAKER_00] It's become very performative. [SPEAKER_01] Let's talk a little bit about content strategy and positioning because you've actually done a really good job building your personal brand. [SPEAKER_01] And then now you've worked with Roe, you're launching your own brand, Cacio Pepe. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Cacio Pepe. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And I just want to hear about A, how you went about positioning your personal brand. [SPEAKER_01] Right. [SPEAKER_01] Because it clearly resonated with hundreds of thousands of people. [SPEAKER_01] And B, was there a goal to make that fit with certain brands, or did the brands come after? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I just felt, as an athlete, I had a lot more to give, and I wanted to be challenged. And when you start getting those PR opportunities in New York City, at the time, that was Instagram, right? That was the content play. [SPEAKER_02] People read the magazine and whatever. You put it on Facebook, right? [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And then once Instagram came out, I said, okay, wow, let me see if I can position myself as the fit restaurateur. I didn't want to just be the restaurateur. I wanted to, I was getting really fit, and I was training at Tone House. I don't know if you guys ever heard of that place. It's probably the hardest workout spot in New York. It's insane. It's wild. And if you trained at Tone House and you wore the hat in the street in New York during that time, people would be like, oh, word. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. This guy gets it. This guy trains. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And that's when we were talking about before we started filming, there was no real fitness in New York then. And people, you went to a big box gym and that's it. You didn't have all these boutique studios. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, you had Crunch Fitness probably and stuff like that. And Tone House sparked that, and Barry's came into the place. So I went to a Nike event where they were super smart when we started doing this in 2012, maybe 11. They would bring a bunch of people together at Pier 40 on the rooftop, and they would shoot a whole turf workout with Tone House. But they'd have drones and photographers on site. And they would get you those pictures. You couldn't post videos, and there were no Stories at the time. All right. This is crazy. This is crazy. This is OG stuff. Terrible filters. [SPEAKER_01] This is really bare bones. Bare bones IG. [SPEAKER_01] No carousels either. No carousel. One photo, and that's it. Grainy with a filter. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Grainy. And you hoped your hashtag worked. I don't even know if that did work. You couldn't post videos, and there were no stories at the time. All right. [SPEAKER_02] This is crazy. [SPEAKER_02] This is crazy. This is OG stuff. Terrible filters. [SPEAKER_01] This is really bare bones. Bare bones IG. [SPEAKER_01] No carousels either. No carousel. One photo, and that's it. Grainy with a filter. Yeah. Grainy. And you hoped your hashtag worked. I don't even know if that did work. But whatever. So they would give you the content that night, with hopes that people would post. Now, I don't know if people did, but I was like, fuck, I'm in incredible shape right now. And I was the OG guy to wear tights with no shorts back in the day, no shirt. And people were like, who is this guy? And I was just always very comfortable and confident. Yeah. I was like, fuck it. I'm going to roll like this because more people that are going to hate are going to be following, and whatever. Smart. So we went to this shoot or this workout, and I did a jump in the air, and I was higher than everyone, and they snapped it perfectly. And I was like, fuck, this is a dope photo. I'm going to post it on Instagram in the morning, and I'm going to put some cheesy captions and say, rule number one, don't be number two. And I got maybe 300 likes. And I was like, oh shit, 300 people like this. This is really cool. So I called up my best friend, Chris Caro, who's a photographer. I was like, meet me on the east side. I have all these tights, bro. We're going to do a corny workout shoot on the turf, running the track, playing soccer. I love that. Right? And he was like, really, bro? [SPEAKER_02] And I was like, don't make fun of me. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Just fucking meet me there at sunrise, and you're going to shoot me running around. Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] And he's like, okay. I told you, no questions. You just have to meet me. [SPEAKER_01] I'm telling your boy, meet me. I got seven pairs of tights. It's crazy. Yeah, I know. Right? So he was like, I'm down, bro. Let's do it. Yeah, yeah. The group chat, everyone's making fun of me. But we did it. And then I started posting more of those quotes on top of these photos. You couldn't even do any of that in the captions. And it started picking up, started picking up. [SPEAKER_02] Nike started liking it. All these things. Then next thing you know, I'm getting invited to a Nike event, an Adidas event. All these different pop-ups. And then next thing you know, Men's Health hits me up from someone who saw this and was like, hey, can you be on a cover? Come to this shoot. And once that happened, I was like, oh, this is for real. Right. And then that Men's Health cover turned into meeting the CEO of Amex, who then did a hospitality Christmas event at my bar. Then I was like, oh my God, dude. I can get all these fitness people to come to the bar and do their parties. And then I was getting more press and more press and more press. And then Instagram slowly developed, right? And then everyone was getting involved in it. And then it was like, okay, I have a five-year Volvo deal. And that's when the new XC90 came out, with the new body style. And they let me wrap it in green. And then I did that. And all these things started popping up. And then that's when I ended up leaving, in 2018, the restaurant business. [SPEAKER_02] But we did events better than anybody. [SPEAKER_02] And I was on the forefront of doing that. [SPEAKER_02] So then I was like, dude, I can create a fitness company. [SPEAKER_02] And I learned so much on that five-year journey of Instagram that I could just replicate it now with HPLT. [SPEAKER_01] Right. And we got David Goggins to do our first summit. [SPEAKER_02] And then I was like, I could just crush so much content UGC-wise. [SPEAKER_02] And all these brands are going to want to dance with us because we were the first people to do it. [SPEAKER_00] And that's peak David Goggins era, too. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, that was the first. [SPEAKER_02] You could DM him, and he would DM you back. Yeah. That was the first Rogan episode. Yeah, so I DMed him. He got back to me. And he was like, hey, speak to my manager, who was his fiance. And funny story, we got on a call. And I didn't have a company, really. I made it up. I was like, I have a company. I want to do an event in May. And she was like, all right, send me your deck. So immediately when I left the restaurant. Go make the deck. [SPEAKER_01] I called my girl. I was like, yo, please make me a deck. She made me a deck. I sent it over. She's like, he'll do it. It's going to be 50 grand for him to speak for an hour, which is insane now. I would do that all day now. He's probably like, what, 500? I think 150 or 175 for an hour. And she's like, yeah, he'll do it. Hop on a call with you and talk through it with him. I was like, what the fuck is going on? And then I wired the money, and my wife didn't know I started a new business. And that's a whole other story. But we did it. So I think for me, any advice I could give people is, you have to be as confident as you possibly can. I would do that all day now. He's probably, what, 500? I think 150 or 175 for an hour. And she's like, yeah, he'll do it. Hop on a call with you and talk through it with him. I was like, what the fuck is going on? And then I wired the money, and my wife didn't know I started a new business. And that's a whole other story. But we did it. [SPEAKER_02] So I think for me, [SPEAKER_02] any advice I could give people is: You have to be as confident as you possibly can. And people are going to judge you no matter what. And 99% of the people want you to fail rather than win. But I love that shit. So I'd rather have everyone think they want me to fail and not do well. [SPEAKER_01] People almost never punch down, right? [SPEAKER_01] They always are punching up. [SPEAKER_01] So it just really doesn't matter at all. [SPEAKER_01] So I was like, fuck it. And then I think with the user-generated stuff, brands started to see what we were able to do on the HPLT side and the reach side, and just took off from there. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, because [SPEAKER_01] that's actually one of the first times that I saw your stuff [SPEAKER_01] was when you did the collab with Kane. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And so... [SPEAKER_02] So we launched Kane. [SPEAKER_01] Right. [SPEAKER_02] We launched Kane at HPLT in 2021. [SPEAKER_02] Oh, wow. [SPEAKER_02] Rob Pannell, best lacrosse player ever, who's my best friend, [SPEAKER_02] was like, hey, you got to meet this guy, John Gags. Yeah, he's a legend. The OG. We met at a diner in Westchester. [SPEAKER_02] And he was like, dude, I have this shoe. What do you think about it? I was like, oh, it reminds me of Crocs. And he's like, yeah, exactly. But we're better than Crocs. [SPEAKER_02] And I was like, I can help you do this. [SPEAKER_02] He's like, really? [SPEAKER_02] I'm like, yeah, dude, [SPEAKER_02] I have a summit coming up in May in Miami. And I'll have all the right people there. I have Eric Hinman there. All these right people. Give everyone pairs of shoes. You're going to speak with your designer. And I'm going to blow this up for you. He's like, really? I'm like, yep. So he came. We blew it up for him. So pretty much every athlete I brought to the table for them: Matt Choi, Nick Bare, Eric Hinman. The list goes on. That all came through HPLT and our network. And these are all friends. And John's a very good friend of mine. And I was like, dude, if you trust me, I will funnel you to the right people. And then you take it from here, and I don't need to do anything from there. [SPEAKER_01] Do you think, I'm curious if you think that playbook is as effective in 2026 as it was in 2021. [SPEAKER_01] I think it will always be effective. Because people need to trust the people behind the brand. If you can build that brand loyalty, you'll always do well. And that's why I think HPLT has been so successful for the past eight years. The amount of speakers we bring in, the brands that we bring in, people know that we really believe in them and we trust them. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I do great. And they come, and look, we did the same thing with Athletic Brewing. In 2018, when we launched in LA with SEAL Team 6 and stuff, they were the logo on the shorts. And then I'm not saying we helped them take off, but they believed in us to get that content out right away. Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] Looking at where the space is going from the event side, [SPEAKER_00] what have you learned over the last, what has it been, eight years roughly, [SPEAKER_00] putting on events, putting on experiences, [SPEAKER_00] putting on things that have these diehard followings? [SPEAKER_00] Because looking at where the landscape's going, [SPEAKER_00] all the brands are starting to try to put in these in-person experiences. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] Right. [SPEAKER_00] Especially everybody's talking about this analog era [SPEAKER_00] and we want to use digital to bring people together. Especially on the luxury side too. [SPEAKER_00] Especially on the luxury side. [SPEAKER_02] Luxury brands now are doing experiential. They're getting away from strategic PR that they used to do. And you have Montclair going on a ski trip. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Right? Kith does that all the time, right? They work with those brands and they do really cool stuff, which is brilliant. [SPEAKER_00] But what are some of the mistakes that you make that you can tell people now [SPEAKER_00] so that they don't make the same mistakes as they're trying to lean into this? [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] Because those mistakes probably could cost $50,000, $100,000. It could cost so much money. And you can ask my partner, Melissa, on this. I'm the cheapest guy ever with this stuff. So I'm very strategic with it. But I think no matter what, our brands now are so wired to consume, consume, consume, consume. [SPEAKER_02] Right? It could be good. [SPEAKER_02] It could be bad. And people's attention span is shot. Mine's shot. I can even be like, what did I just look at? I forget. Right? So brands have to understand that people are going to consume the info no matter what. But that just means that they're digesting it. They're just taking it in. What are they going to do with that? Right. What we've done a very good job that I had to learn along the way is people need to really be impacted by the surrounding network and people that are part of the event. I never wanted it to be about me when they go to the event. Mine's shot. [SPEAKER_02] I can even be, what did I just look at? I forget. Right? So brands have to understand that people are going to consume the info no matter what. But that just means that they're digesting it. They're just taking it in. What are they going to do with that? Right. What we've done a very good job that I had to learn along the way is people need to really be impacted by the surrounding network and people that are part of the event. I never wanted it to be about me when they go to the event. If you ask anyone, I'm actually kind of standoffish at the event because I want the brand and the network to speak for itself. When you make it too much about the founder, it's only going to have a shorter shelf life because what happens if something goes wrong with the founder? Doesn't interact. Doesn't interact. Doesn't interact, or there's going to be something, or whatever. Whatever. So if the brand has that loyalty and the network of the people are really the brand, I think it will go super far. Now, we just spoke about Montclair. They're going to be fine. They have so much more money than I have in this stuff. Right. But when they do their event, it's not about the founder of Montclair. It's about the experience and what they're doing and the people that are going to the summit. [SPEAKER_02] So we're very intentional with who comes to the summit because we want people to have no ego. [SPEAKER_02] We want people to really interact with each other. [SPEAKER_02] And there's so many people that have become best friends, have invested in each other's businesses together, by coming to our summits. And I think that is where they're consuming the information, but they also have an action plan to do something with it after. [SPEAKER_01] What are some of those ways you go about making an experience more memorable for your guests? Well, no matter what we always do, whenever we're by a body of water, we bring in Navy SEALs. And I think no matter what, I always have to do that. A, because I love doing it. I love to suffer in the cold water with everyone. Okay. But there is nothing like that in these summits or experiences that people are doing. [SPEAKER_01] Right. [SPEAKER_02] Right? So it's two hours. You're getting waterboarded. You're doing everything as a group. You are with Navy SEALs that have been in the craziest situations. Willingly getting waterboarded. Willingly getting waterboarded. And it's really uncomfortable for two hours. But I think it gives you a huge reality check when you're done. [SPEAKER_02] You're like, oh my God. [SPEAKER_02] There's so much more I can give. [SPEAKER_02] Life isn't that bad. [SPEAKER_02] Exactly. [SPEAKER_02] And that really sets the tone for the weekend because the camaraderie between everyone is just so on fire. [SPEAKER_02] And then we take them through a mind-body-soul journey throughout the whole weekend. [SPEAKER_02] But that sets the tone. [SPEAKER_00] So you do that at the beginning of the event? [SPEAKER_02] We do it right away. [SPEAKER_00] It's almost like the hook. [SPEAKER_02] People don't know each other yet. [SPEAKER_02] They're still a little standoffish. [SPEAKER_02] But then it's like, all right, dude, I don't know you, but I have to hold your arm right [SPEAKER_02] now, and we're going to get smacked in a 40-degree wave together. [SPEAKER_02] I can't let you go. [SPEAKER_02] And by the end of that session, I'm like, dude, when am I coming to visit you in Austin? [SPEAKER_02] You saved your life. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] It's so crazy. [SPEAKER_02] You're like, dude, you're my man. [SPEAKER_02] You're my man now. [SPEAKER_02] Right? [SPEAKER_02] So I think it's super unique. [SPEAKER_01] You just immediately make them trauma bond. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] It's like you're immediately hooked. [SPEAKER_02] That's brilliant. [SPEAKER_02] You do it, right? [SPEAKER_02] And then you go throughout the next couple hours, and then you do breath work, and you're [SPEAKER_02] tapping into your inner child issues, and you're crying together. [SPEAKER_02] Do you all do Wim Hof? [SPEAKER_02] We don't do Wim Hof. [SPEAKER_02] We do hypno breath work with Francesca, this woman out in LA who's wonderful, who's been [SPEAKER_02] to all of our summits. [SPEAKER_02] So we try to make every experience inside of the summits where you have to second guess [SPEAKER_02] your life at some point, where you're like, maybe I should do that. [SPEAKER_02] Maybe I shouldn't do that. [SPEAKER_02] I've had people leave the summits and within an hour be like, I just quit my job [SPEAKER_02] of 15 years. [SPEAKER_02] Thank you. [SPEAKER_02] And I'm like, or guys like, I'm not getting married now. [SPEAKER_02] I just rented a new home, and I literally just texted my fiancee that it's over. [SPEAKER_02] And now, I'm not saying that's what we try to do, but it's so impactful for people that [SPEAKER_02] they're like... [SPEAKER_02] It's a mindset shift. It's a mindset shift. It's totally... [SPEAKER_00] They see life through a completely different lens. [SPEAKER_00] Totally. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Now you're getting the dopest gear as well, right? You're getting the new Solomon Run shoes. You're getting all this stuff. You're feeling fly. You're doing all these different activations. So... Come out that motherfucker a new man. Yeah. You're like, oh my God. [SPEAKER_00] It never looks so good. You got to start giving haircuts while they're there too. I know. Give them a pair of tights. So I think that's what we really try to do. It's worked really well. And the brands that come in and the founders that speak really... We always tell the founders, we want you to be here for the whole summit so you can really get close to the people because then they'll be lifers. [SPEAKER_01] Now y'all already know we are super skeptical on this show about most AI tools promising [SPEAKER_01] the world. [SPEAKER_01] They have flashy demos, huge promises, and ultimately underdeliver. [SPEAKER_01] But I do have to tell you about one that has blown me away and saved my team countless [SPEAKER_01] hours of time, and that's Rich Panel. So I think that's what we really try to do. It's worked really well. And the brands that come in and the founders that speak really... We always tell the founders, we want you to be here for the whole summit so you can really get close to the people because then they'll be lifers. [SPEAKER_01] Now y'all already know we are super skeptical on this show about most AI tools promising [SPEAKER_01] the world. [SPEAKER_01] They have flashy demos, huge promises, and ultimately underdeliver. [SPEAKER_01] But I do have to tell you about one that has blown me away and saved my team countless [SPEAKER_01] hours of time, and that's Rich Panel. [SPEAKER_01] Imagine a 24-7 customer support engine that handles all of your tickets seamlessly, escalates [SPEAKER_01] anything requiring human intervention, and here's the best part, upsells your customers [SPEAKER_01] in the process. [SPEAKER_01] Their onboarding process is frankly one of the craziest things I've ever seen. [SPEAKER_01] You input your brand, and within 15 minutes it has full context on the latest drops, product [SPEAKER_01] information, and plugs into all of your apps. [SPEAKER_01] That's not even to mention the cost savings. [SPEAKER_01] They're three times more affordable than their competitors. I couldn't recommend this enough. [SPEAKER_01] So if you're a brand looking to turn support into an asset, go check out richpanel.com and [SPEAKER_01] tell them we sent you. [SPEAKER_00] I've never thought about that, where the very interesting point to think about is the first [SPEAKER_00] thing that you do almost as a hook. [SPEAKER_00] Something that gets everybody very connected. [SPEAKER_00] Because I don't know if you guys listened to the Rogan and it was Ben Affleck, Matt Damon [SPEAKER_00] episode. [SPEAKER_00] Yes. [SPEAKER_00] Where he's talking about how Hollywood has shifted, how they film has shifted, how [SPEAKER_00] they come up with movies. [SPEAKER_01] Because they know people's attention spans are cooked. [SPEAKER_00] So they have to make, they were talking about the movie, the new movie that they just put [SPEAKER_00] out. [SPEAKER_00] I don't know why I can't remember the name. [SPEAKER_01] Project Hail Mary maybe? [SPEAKER_00] The first five seconds, right? [SPEAKER_00] Somebody gets popped right in the first five seconds. [SPEAKER_01] That's every show right now. [SPEAKER_01] Someone just gets shot in the head immediately. [SPEAKER_00] And then it goes into storyline. [SPEAKER_00] And then they break it down on the Rogan episode where it's like, well, Netflix has to do [SPEAKER_00] that now. [SPEAKER_00] Because if not, they got the data that people are going to be scrolling. [SPEAKER_00] They're trying to find something else to watch. [SPEAKER_00] Not that that could happen at an event. [SPEAKER_00] But if you think about the first event, we're not the- [SPEAKER_00] Shoot them in the fucking face immediately. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] But you think about the first event as, okay, we need to get them to buy in and be [SPEAKER_00] completely submerged and immersed into this experience through the first event. [SPEAKER_00] The first thing that we do, that's a very interesting concept. Yeah. And we did that in Antigua. So we did a summit overseas. And Kaj Larsen, who's an incredible Navy SEAL, I was like, dude, I honestly want to do the Navy SEAL activation after dinner the first night. He's like, really? In the dark? I'm like, yeah. He's like, okay, say no more. That's right. [SPEAKER_02] So he ate quickly and went out in the ocean and was floating by the boats. And we had everyone eat. And we're like, okay, first activation starts now. Go to your room. Change. Meet me down here in five minutes. And I saw grown men extremely, extremely nervous to get into the ocean in the middle of the night. I was hurt, actually, so I didn't have to do it, thank God. And I do all the activations with everyone, so I still love this. That's why I really do it, because I get to just fucking train with awesome people. And he was at the boats floating, and people are on the beach lined up, and he comes out of the water. He swims in his Speedo, comes out, and flippers. He's like, I'm Lieutenant Kaj Larsen, blah, blah, blah, blah. And people are like, oh my God. And he's like, get in the water, swim around those boats, and come back. [SPEAKER_02] And people are like, but again, after that moment, people feel like superheroes. [SPEAKER_02] And then the weekend flows so perfectly, because people are bought in. People see that the leaders are bought in. [SPEAKER_02] And they're like, I can't let you down. [SPEAKER_02] I can't let you down. I have to train hard this weekend. [SPEAKER_02] I have to be dialed in throughout all the seminars. And it's really incredible that you become a team. [SPEAKER_00] I was just saying, you made me think of a complete other side of it, where there's probably [SPEAKER_00] so much affinity built into HPLT because of how you make them feel at the end of however many days you guys put them through the ringer, where if they come in feeling like, oh, I'm [SPEAKER_00] anxious, or I don't have confidence in the work area. [SPEAKER_00] But then, like you said, they leave that experience feeling like a superhero. [SPEAKER_00] That changes their whole life, but it also is, they're going to know the friend that's [SPEAKER_00] dealing with something, and go right to, yo, Brian, you should definitely do this. [SPEAKER_02] And you have this word-of-mouth engine built into it. [SPEAKER_02] That referral is huge for us. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] We don't even market really that much. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] I put it up. It almost has to come in through a referral. Yeah, because if you're new to this, and I post the Navy SEAL workout, and [SPEAKER_02] you see Ray Cash screaming at you to get in the water, you're going to be like, I don't, I don't know if I'm going to do that. Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Then I have to convince you to do it, right, on a call. Which is not. Which I don't want. So I'm like, hey dude, reach out to your homie. [SPEAKER_02] I know you told me he's going through some stuff. I'll even discount him 500 bucks so he comes. Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Right? [SPEAKER_02] And he's like, really? [SPEAKER_02] And then they come, like, you saved my life. [SPEAKER_02] I've heard that so many times, and I'm like, I didn't do anything, dude. [SPEAKER_02] The Navy SEALs did that. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] Then I have to convince you to do it, right, on a call. Which is not. Which I don't want. So I'm like, hey dude, reach out to your homie. I know you told me he's going through some stuff. I'll even discount him 500 bucks so he comes. Yeah. Right? And he's like, really? And then they come, you saved my life. I've heard that so many times, and I'm like, I didn't do anything, dude. The Navy SEALs did that. I just put you in that room. And I think that's the key of real leadership, especially for coaches and anyone in this world, is if you want anything to be successful that you are part of with a bunch of different people, as a leader, you have to put them in the right room. Yeah. Totally. I wrote about this in the newsletter the other day. [SPEAKER_02] It's like a water bottle, right? A water bottle at CVS is two bucks. A water bottle at the airport is $7. A water bottle at the Met game is $12. Same water bottle, just different prices. But different environments, right? [SPEAKER_02] Look at, I don't know if you guys watch soccer or Champions League, or Olisse and Harry Kane and Diaz right now at Bayern Munich. Harry Kane didn't win anything at Tottenham. Nothing. Left, now he just won back to back, and he might probably win Ballon d'Or. Michael Olisse, Crystal Palace didn't really value him. Man City cut him as a kid. Now he's on Bayern Munich and arguably the best player or winger in the world. I like him better than Jamal. Sam Darnold. You could fight me on that. Sam Darnold, right? [SPEAKER_01] Sam Darnold just won a Super Bowl after being booked. And look at Diaz, who's on Liverpool, left and went to Bayern Munich. Now these guys are going to probably win Champions League. They're all going to crush in the World Cup. Same players, same exact style of players, different environment, different coach. Right? So as a leader, you have to put people in the right room for them to be successful. So I would actually like all the CEOs of their employees that come to my summit to send me a nice thank you because I make them so much sharper. [SPEAKER_02] Right? [SPEAKER_02] Because they're around steak knives all day for those three weekends. [SPEAKER_02] They're not around butter knives. They're around steak knives. They're getting sharp, and they're learning how to be weapons. [SPEAKER_02] And they go back and apply those tools with confidence. And confidence is the best tool in order to be successful, in my opinion. [SPEAKER_00] You can even say the same thing about LeBron, right? [SPEAKER_00] LeBron going from Cleveland to Miami, getting in the right room with Wade and Pat Riley. Of course. [SPEAKER_00] Completely shifts who he was as a player, then comes right back to Cleveland and wins it, right? [SPEAKER_00] It's a complete shift. Now the way he did it might have not been... [SPEAKER_00] For sure. Awesome. Questionable rollout. [SPEAKER_02] Questionable rollout. [SPEAKER_00] Well, he wasn't in the room yet. But he wasn't in the room yet, and he got real sharp. [SPEAKER_02] They got sharp. So you were a hospitality entrepreneur. Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] You got your start in the bar space. [SPEAKER_01] That's obviously struggling quite a bit. And now you're a fitness experiential entrepreneur. What do you think happens next in this bar industry? How does a bar or a members club or some sort of hospitality experience replicate what you just said? Which is that first interaction is so strong that they build massive affinity for your establishment. How does someone do that? [SPEAKER_02] Well, first and foremost, back in the day when we were doing the restaurant world, you could drink and do drugs, and it was fine. Yeah, yeah. Right? There was... [SPEAKER_01] Societally. Societally. It was totally fine. Now I think in the space of all of these podcasts and information that people are getting... [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, the wellness industrial complex. It's forcing it down your throat now in a way of saying, wow, I shouldn't have a glass of wine or I shouldn't be drinking. Look at what it's doing to my life. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, Huberman told me it'll kill me. [SPEAKER_00] Exactly. [SPEAKER_00] So we were over in Little Italy yesterday, we were having dinner, and the waiter's just playing with my daughter the whole night and being really sweet with her. [SPEAKER_00] At the end of the night, he brings shots, and he was like, hey, you guys drink? [SPEAKER_00] I was like, yeah, I'll take a shot. [SPEAKER_00] Well, the first thing Tommy says is, I can't take a shot. [SPEAKER_00] I'll ruin my sleep score. I was like, no, dude. So now in a way it's good, but in a way it's also not good, right? Because you have to live a little, and you're over-optimizing everything. So I understand that. But I think people are more hyper-aware now of everything that they're doing and how it can affect your sleep score and your longevity and how you look and how you act. [SPEAKER_02] And again, people want to be cultish and be a certain way, right? So they follow the wave. Now restaurants, when we did Ainsworth, we created experiences, right? We were the Sunday Funday kings. We were the first people to really have a DJ during Sunday football. We had bottle service at noon on Sunday. It was crazy. [SPEAKER_02] So we created that experience for people. We had celebrities and athletes and all of that stuff all around. So again, restaurants now are still going to have to get creative, and they're going to have to create experiences within the restaurants. Now, New York City is crazy because rents are so high, and especially the new mayor and everything is kind of wild. It's the Wild Wild West now. I don't know if restaurants are going to be able to get that creative on their budget and their cash flow. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Because you have rainy days. You have bad days. It crushes you as a restaurateur. It was crazy. So we created that experience for people. We had celebrities and athletes and all of that stuff all around. So again, restaurants now are still going to have to get creative, and they're going to have to create experiences within the restaurants. Now, New York City is crazy because rents are so high, and especially the new mayor and everything is wild. It's the wild, wild west now. I don't know if restaurants are going to be able to get that creative on their budget and their cash flow. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Because you have rainy days. You have bad days. It crushes you as a restaurateur. Yeah. But then you look at it like, I think Vegas is even getting affected by all of this, right? [SPEAKER_01] Because it's the poster child. Now look what they're doing. You're going to Aspen. You're going to ski resorts, and you have a V, not a VG. I just saw him. He just passed away, the anniversary. You get David Guetta coming to Aspen to perform on a ski weekend. That never happened. So people are seeking different locations for experiences, right? But that's where the restaurants need to get really creative and follow to these different locations and do pop-ups and do all of these things to stay relevant. Because they're not going to be able to hang along in these environments anymore because people aren't drinking as much. Yeah. People are training more, and people are buying into their health. So especially with seed oils and all of these things, does this have seed oils on it? Dude, you did cocaine three weeks ago. Yeah, two days ago. You're worried about seed oils, right? It's nuts. [SPEAKER_02] So I think people need to slow down with that. [SPEAKER_02] But restaurants, I feel, definitely have to change their environment and their landscape because people aren't eating out the way they used to, and they're not drinking the way they used to. Do you think members clubs, there's this massive bubble of members clubs? [SPEAKER_01] Massive boom here. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And you're in New York City, right? So the amount of wealth is unmatched. Right. [SPEAKER_01] So you can do that here. But in other cities, maybe one or two max. Right. [SPEAKER_02] Maybe one. [SPEAKER_02] But people want to be exclusive. [SPEAKER_02] People want to show, again, their experiences on their phone, and I'm cooler than you. [SPEAKER_02] I could go to this club. [SPEAKER_02] I could do that. [SPEAKER_02] I got access to this place. [SPEAKER_02] I got access. [SPEAKER_02] You don't. [SPEAKER_01] Right? [SPEAKER_01] And that's just the world we live in. [SPEAKER_01] Dave Grubman was on a podcast recently, and he said… [SPEAKER_01] He's on Mark. [SPEAKER_01] Was he on Mark Brazil's podcast? Yes. Yeah. And he came out and said, the quickest way to make sure someone never comes back to your bar is to give them a VIP card. [SPEAKER_01] Because then they don't have the illusion that I might not be able to get the rest. [SPEAKER_01] Right? [SPEAKER_01] If I don't know if I can get the place, then I probably want to go more rather than, oh, that's my default. [SPEAKER_01] That's my go-to. [SPEAKER_01] And he said he keeps that exact mentality through all of his different restaurants. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And then you have these run clubs that are super popular, right? [SPEAKER_02] Especially in Austin and New York and here. And it's like, I can't drink tonight because I have to be super fly for my run club tomorrow. Yeah. I get it. But I think restaurants are in for a rude awakening. Yeah. They barely survived COVID, right? [SPEAKER_02] That landscape changed everything now. [SPEAKER_02] People drank a lot during COVID, and they were like, oh my God, I have a drinking problem now. [SPEAKER_02] And they got out of it. [SPEAKER_02] But restaurants, it's going to be tough. [SPEAKER_02] I think a restaurant could solve its problems by just reverse engineering what works on social media, right? [SPEAKER_01] So if you have, we talked about extremism earlier. [SPEAKER_01] If you have an extreme steak. [SPEAKER_01] I used to do the mac and cheeseburger challenge. I don't know if you guys know that. Dude, this is crazy. [SPEAKER_02] So I created a burger called the mac and cheeseburger. So it's a burger, panko mac and cheese that was frozen and got fried. So then you had that mac and cheese on top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And then mac and cheese on top of that. But I was like, oh, this is dope. It's going viral on infatuation and all these things. But I was like, fuck, it's not enough. So let's do three burgers on top of each other. And whoever can eat this burger in 45 minutes without throwing up gets 750 bucks. Yeah, it's like Man Versus Food. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, Kobayashi came and did three of them in a row and didn't throw up. So was that nine total burgers? That was nine total burgers. It was, dude. Eight pounds of mac and cheese. Eight pounds of mac and cheese. [SPEAKER_02] It was this big. He ate all of it, so he was dipping it in water and eating it. But it was a huge social moment. [SPEAKER_02] Then the food god, who I've known forever through the hospitality industry, Jonathan Chevin, [SPEAKER_02] I saw him out when my son was one. [SPEAKER_02] He was passing my bar, and he was like, yo, dude, let's do something together. [SPEAKER_02] So we created the 24-carat gold wings. Do you guys remember that? [SPEAKER_02] So I created that with him. [SPEAKER_02] And then that went viral. I think we won the PR awards during that time because we had 24-carat gold wings that were $1,000, and you got a bottle of Ace of Spades with it. Right? So we partnered with that, and people were like, dude. So we were doing this stuff. I remember, it's so crazy. Casey Nistat, right? The OG YouTuber. Calls my phone one day. I'm like, hello? He's like, it's Casey. I'm like, Casey who? And then that went viral. I think we won the PR awards during that time because we had 24-carat gold wings that were $1,000, and you got a bottle of Ace of Spades with it. [SPEAKER_02] Right? [SPEAKER_02] So we partnered with that, and people were like, dude. [SPEAKER_02] So we were doing this stuff. I remember, it's so crazy. Casey Nistat, right? The OG YouTuber. Calls my phone one day. I'm like, hello? He's like, it's Casey. I'm like, Casey who? And he's like, he tells me. And I'm like, oh, what's up? He's like, dude, I heard you got those wings. I got a drone flying out of your bar on Third Avenue right now. Can I come in? I'm like, yeah. Cops come because there's a drone. You can't have drones in New York City. And then he shot this whole thing on YouTube for us for free. Yeah. And it went nuts. Was this when he was blogging every single day? [SPEAKER_00] He was blogging everything. [SPEAKER_00] And he's in there eating the 24-carat gold wings. He wants to know how it's made and all that stuff. They were terrible, but they were brutal, and it was huge PR. So yeah, you have to do things that are wild, right? To get people in the door. It's just like when you're creating a clothing brand, right? You need to, it is short-lived, but your other products and your foundation have to be gnarly. Right. They got to work. But it's like now the low is higher. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] Right? [SPEAKER_00] You go to an extreme high, the low is here. [SPEAKER_00] You're now right in here. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] Right? [SPEAKER_00] And you can almost use it. [SPEAKER_00] We're a T-shirt brand. That's our simple pleasures. All of our T-shirts are made in the US. That's our bread and butter. We sell the most of those, but we're doing really cool novelty pieces, which get traffic into the site. Totally. [SPEAKER_01] So you got to do the, so we're doing a cool jean jacket. We would never really make that, but people do that. We did these shorts for the World Cup. I posted it the other day on social. That was the most I've ever received from people regarding the clothing brand. But now our T-shirts are selling more because people are going to the site. Yeah. You got to bring the traffic. So it's like, if you're going to buy the denim, you're going to look for the thing that matches. [SPEAKER_00] And you might as well look for where you're already searching. [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Run clubs are cool, right? If you want to be a runner, it's awesome. [SPEAKER_02] You get good fitness, but there's hot chicks at it. [SPEAKER_02] The guys are going to go. Yeah, it definitely helps. Definitely. [SPEAKER_00] But I think everything you've touched on so far is you truly understand how to make, whether it's macro experiences or micro experiences like the 24-carat wings, to get people to talk about it and to get buzz about it. [SPEAKER_00] And to almost understand the infrastructure that people want to pull out their phones and put that out there. [SPEAKER_00] Show that they can do that. [SPEAKER_00] Whether it's a status symbol of, hey, I completed the mac and cheeseburger challenge, or 24-carat wings, or even down to the Navy SEALs. [SPEAKER_00] I was waterboarded by a Navy SEAL at night. [SPEAKER_00] And it's the most wild part, the mothers and the women that come and do the Navy SEAL stuff, they love it. I feel like they get more out of it because their kids see, wow, mom just did this. And that's what they talk about. Yeah. [SPEAKER_00] My kids think I'm cool now. My kids know I'm strong. [SPEAKER_02] My kids know I can do this. [SPEAKER_02] So for me, that's a huge win, right? [SPEAKER_02] So anyone who does the Navy SEAL activation is immediately on social right after. [SPEAKER_02] And we turn around content within hours. [SPEAKER_02] That's our other thing. [SPEAKER_02] And I've always done that for brands. [SPEAKER_02] We shoot and we get it to you. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. [SPEAKER_02] And that's cheat code, right? [SPEAKER_02] If anyone's listening out there, if you could do that with good people. He knows a lot of the people that we worked with back in the day. Boom, boom, boom. Content out. So if you can get people to go to the content right away that's edited and easy for them to post. Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] They feel so cool. And they say they just did the Navy SEAL. Of course. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] Wasn't that a big transition for you in the growth of HBLC? [SPEAKER_00] Because it started just as mostly males, right? [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And then you added in females and them being able to do it as well. [SPEAKER_00] Was that a big growth spurt? [SPEAKER_00] It was, yeah. It was hard because my wife's like, women are not going to want to do the Navy SEAL stuff. And I'm like, I don't know if that's necessarily true. Women are actually tougher than men with this stuff. They don't complain. The men complain the most during the Navy SEAL. The women just deal with it. We have to introduce it to them, right? So that was, in the beginning, when you start a business, you rely on the homies. I told all my friends, you have to come buy a ticket. Support my business. And they did that, and then it turned into, oh my God, this is real. This is really impactful. And then it's like, hey, can I bring my wife? My wife wants to join. And then that's how it really started, with people bringing their spouses and then their spouses bringing their friends. Yeah. [SPEAKER_01] And something you've talked about a lot is being a dad and you're very family-oriented. [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. So that was in the beginning when you start a business, you rely on the homies. I told all my friends, you have to come buy a ticket. Support my business. And they did that, and then it turned into, oh my God, this is real. This is really impactful. And then it's, hey, can I bring my wife? My wife wants to join. And then that's how it really started, with people bringing their spouses and then their spouses bringing their friends. [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And something you've talked about a lot is being a dad and you're very family oriented. Yeah. Has that been a superpower for you in growing your business? [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think so. Because first and foremost, I stopped drinking 10 years ago because I never wanted my kids to see me have a drink. And I was, I always want to be in control, and not that drinking is terrible, but I just don't want them to know that's how I roll. And I never want them to see me tired, and I never want them to outwork me. Right? I will die on the track when my son beats me in a mile. It's just not going to happen. [SPEAKER_02] Right? [SPEAKER_02] And my son's eight years old. [SPEAKER_02] He runs a 620, and I'm, all right, bro. [SPEAKER_02] We're going to cook. That's disgusting. And he's not in a run club. And he doesn't do high rocks. Don't need either one. Don't need any of those. Me and him are the run club. Yeah. But fatherhood for me allows me to check myself and say, okay, how good can I really get as a human being? And what line can I ride there of being as strong as I could be, as fit as I could be, as emotionally supportive for them, be their dad and best friend? How can I juggle all of that? So I think for me it's been a really fun ride in that sense of, okay, you want your kids to be good athletes. I have two boys, and I want them to fall in love with sport because, not that they're going to go pro with it, but sports are so important for their professional life. Right? I want them to learn how to fail, learn how to win, learn what grit really means. Working with people. Work with people. Be a good teammate because when you go get your job, I need you to be liked here. Likeability is huge. And I find what I do is super important for them to see me do it. So I'm going for a run. It's going to be 10 miles. [SPEAKER_02] I'll be back. [SPEAKER_02] Wow, you ran 10 miles? [SPEAKER_02] You're dripping wet. I'm going for a lift. I'll be back. Daddy, your muscles, your arms. Yeah, guys, you can look like this if you do this. I need them to see me intentionally suffering every single day. And that has transcended them into understanding. And they're six and eight. [SPEAKER_02] And we have accountability calendars. [SPEAKER_02] They're doing their pushups. They're making their bed. They're doing all of these things, which are structure for them. [SPEAKER_02] So when they don't need daddy anymore, they could thrive. [SPEAKER_02] And I think for me, that's my grade. It's always going to be my greatest work. When I see them performing in sport and doing really well, I'm just, dude, it's incredible. When we test our mile four times a year in our soccer club, and my son went from an 816 to a 621 in seven months. And we film it. [SPEAKER_02] I film it.